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#66229 - 2002-06-07 02:45 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Les Offline
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Registered: 2001-06-11
Posts: 12734
Loc: fortfrances.on.ca
OK! Thanks MCA for the explanation. Now we need everyone with a five star rating to give Rad five stars.

Dean, thanks for giving Rad another star!
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#66230 - 2002-06-07 02:48 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Les Offline
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Registered: 2001-06-11
Posts: 12734
Loc: fortfrances.on.ca
Hmmm... this rating / weighting thingy...

Dare I start slamming the newbie pollsters with impunity...
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#66231 - 2002-06-07 02:49 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Shawn Administrator Offline
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Registered: 1999-08-13
Posts: 8611
That blurb from InfoPop was the best read I've had all week. Thats actually kinda neat how 5 stars have more "weight" than 1 stars - but I'm all "starred-out" in terms of rating Radimus. Actually, I just realized that I never rated MCA yet - how the hell did I miss that ? Soon to be corrected to be sure !
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#66232 - 2002-06-07 03:05 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Radimus Moderator Offline
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Registered: 2000-01-06
Posts: 5187
Loc: Tampa, FL
Don't sweat it guys...
It isn't a popularity contest, and the stars will not make my code any better.

Thanks for the thought though. That certainly means more than a rating on a BBS.
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#66233 - 2002-06-07 03:27 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
MCA Offline
KiX Supporter
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Registered: 2000-04-28
Posts: 5152
Loc: Netherlands, EU
Dear,

Most important things are
- you can rate someone only once. correction isn't possible afterwards.
- indeed answers will not become better, but the value guarantee possible
quality.
- it is clear now why five stars are become five stars. possible that it is
better that UBB board get the capability of rating topics.
More important what the actual reactions are from members. As user it isn't
possible to see who and why he or she is rating you.
greetings.
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#66234 - 2002-06-07 04:14 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Les Offline
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Registered: 2001-06-11
Posts: 12734
Loc: fortfrances.on.ca
Well... if feedback is what you're looking for do what we slam the newbies for... post your thread as a poll! Within the poll portion ask for them to vote on the topic.
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#66235 - 2002-06-07 05:22 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Jack Lothian Offline
MM club member
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Registered: 1999-10-22
Posts: 1169
Loc: Ottawa,Ontario, Canada
MCA,

Are you sure that is the algorithm? You realize Radimus must have received 4 or 5 votes from members rated at 5 in the last few days & his score changed marginally. Something is very wrong here. Is it possible to give a rating of zero? What would be the consequences? What happens if an unrated person votes for Radimus? I would investigate your code very carefully.

Richard's right we need a dump of the votes. (We can strip the names of the voters from the dump since this is not important.) I suspect a review of the votes will identify a weakness in the algorithm. Also, can you show me the exact code for the algorithm plus some of the initialization code for the rating system?

As an aside, I am not sure this is a problem related to newbees. Several members with 5 star ratings voted for Radimus this week & his score was changing by values of 0.01. This is weird especially with only 14 voters (that is when I voted.) A small group of newbees working in coordination could cause this phenomenon but I think an error in the algorithm is the most likely culprit.

[ 07 June 2002, 17:36: Message edited by: JackLothian ]
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#66236 - 2002-06-07 10:12 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
MCA Offline
KiX Supporter
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Registered: 2000-04-28
Posts: 5152
Loc: Netherlands, EU
Dear,

We get those information from Infopop (creator of UBB software), but possible that we can verify it
when we know who gives me this afternoon some stars. Possible Shawn did it.
We have general stars information before that we get an additional star.

Always the biggest problem is that we can't see which users had give our stars.
greetings.

btw: did you follow also our link to related InfoPop topic.
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#66237 - 2002-06-07 10:28 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Shawn Administrator Offline
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Registered: 1999-08-13
Posts: 8611
Yes Dear, it was me that gave you five stars this afternoon, an oversight I quickly remedied.

[ 07 June 2002, 22:48: Message edited by: Shawn ]

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#66238 - 2002-06-07 10:55 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
MCA Offline
KiX Supporter
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Registered: 2000-04-28
Posts: 5152
Loc: Netherlands, EU
Dear Shawn,

The algorithm tals also about WeightForVote

FinalRating = Sum([Vote]*[WeightForVote])/Sum([WeightForVote])

What "weighted score" do you have?

Our profile shows following information related to ratings

Member Ratings
Your Rating Total Votes Weighted Score
25 4.99

The information before was:

Shawn 35
MCA 23


greetings.
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#66239 - 2002-06-07 10:59 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Radimus Moderator Offline
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Registered: 2000-01-06
Posts: 5187
Loc: Tampa, FL
My current rating is at:

code:
Your Rating  Total Votes  Weighted Score  
**** 21 4.14

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#66240 - 2002-06-07 11:03 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Shawn Administrator Offline
Administrator
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Registered: 1999-08-13
Posts: 8611
Mine is:

code:
Your Rating  Total Votes  Weighted Score  
***** 36 4.88

So if i read this correctly, Radimus is like a hair's width away from a five, yeah ? Like .36 of a vote.

heh, plus even though I got more votes than you MCA, you have a better weighted score than I do, like you probably have about 24 five star votes, and maybe one or two 3 & 4 ratings.

[ 07 June 2002, 23:05: Message edited by: Shawn ]

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#66241 - 2002-06-07 11:14 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Radimus Moderator Offline
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Registered: 2000-01-06
Posts: 5187
Loc: Tampa, FL
so if I uderstand correctly...

A 5 start vote from a 5 star member 'counts' more than a 5 star vote from a 1 star member

If that is the case, then a bunch of 1 star\0 star member could give 5 star ratings and actually bring down your score/average.

Is that right?
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#66242 - 2002-06-07 11:17 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
MCA Offline
KiX Supporter
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Registered: 2000-04-28
Posts: 5152
Loc: Netherlands, EU
Dear Shawn,

The strange thing is that everybody gets only one vote by highest rating from us.
Some guys we had also forget, but Infopop information tells us that rate value
isn't the same as new vote value.

FinalRating = Sum([Vote]*[WeightForVote])/Sum([WeightForVote])

Radimus can you return current weight. We just give you also five stars.

Shawn, possible that Infopop return more info what values it is using. F.e. they can
return a example.
greetings.
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#66243 - 2002-06-08 12:37 AM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Radimus Moderator Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 2000-01-06
Posts: 5187
Loc: Tampa, FL
code:
Your Rating  Total Votes  Weighted Score  
**** 22 4.14

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#66244 - 2002-06-08 02:32 AM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
MCA Offline
KiX Supporter
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Registered: 2000-04-28
Posts: 5152
Loc: Netherlands, EU
Thanks Radimus,

The question is now more: what is influencing the weight value?
We will search for it.
greetings.
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#66245 - 2002-06-08 05:41 AM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Jack Lothian Offline
MM club member
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Registered: 1999-10-22
Posts: 1169
Loc: Ottawa,Ontario, Canada
Radimus,

If the formula is correctly implemented a vote of 5 by a "1-star" member will bring your score up but the upward infuence will be a 1/5 of the vote of of a "5-star" member.

If the formula is correct I think it has to be 3 or 4 "5-star" members who rated you as 3 or lower. Nothing else could drive the rating so low & hold it down for so long. It took the concerted effort of somewhere between 6 to 12 "5-star" members to overcome the effect.

This is why I initially asked the question did you have a serious disagreement with some senior members while I was a way.

The only possibilities I can think of are

a) 2 to 5 "5-star" senior members rated you very low (5 might have rated you as 3-stars or 2 as 1-stars)

b) A large number of newbees (like 5 to 10) gave you a low rating

c) or there is something very strange about this formula

Knowing the people on this board, my first thoughts were there is something wrong with the formula. The formula can not be as simple as given. How do unrated members figure in this formula?

MCA,

I followed your link, there is no real info there. There is just a general mathematical formula. Is it possible to see the actual code? With the actual code I might be able to figure out exactly why this is happening.

[ 08 June 2002, 05:51: Message edited by: JackLothian ]
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#66246 - 2002-06-08 09:23 AM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
MCA Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2000-04-28
Posts: 5152
Loc: Netherlands, EU
Dear Jack,

We only link to a related topic from the Infopop forum board. We hope that the description by them
was clear, but we see also strange things.
A great amount of members gets 5-stars from me, but it results only in ONE vote.
A short list of it:

votes before after 5-stars with our weight of 4.99
4 5
9 10
15 16
16 17
17 18
21 22


Possible that the Infopop can return more information about our latest experiences.
We doesn't have the actual code too, but everyone thinks "description of programmer will be clear, but
it isn't".
greetings.

[ 08 June 2002, 09:24: Message edited by: MCA ]
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#66247 - 2002-06-08 04:23 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Radimus Moderator Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 2000-01-06
Posts: 5187
Loc: Tampa, FL
code:
Your Rating  Total Votes  Weighted Score  
**** 24 4.15

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#66248 - 2002-06-08 05:25 PM Re: Radimus: Congratulations 1000th post.
Lonkero Administrator Offline
KiX Master Guru
*****

Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 22346
Loc: OK
I don't think it even works.
correctly I mean.
but how we could examine it if we don't have vote database with all votes?

and one what really should be changed is the rate-only-once-buggy.
I had some ratings before which could be corrected by one star but no can do.
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