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#28638 - 2002-09-09 02:15 PM Help!
sonoslap sonoslap Fresh Scripter Registered: 2002-09-09 Posts: 12 Loc: NC	Hey ppl, I need a good way to learn programming language. I just want to make some of my own programs...Help!? _________________________ ~¿SonOSlap¿~
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#28639 - 2002-09-09 02:22 PM Re: Help!
Lonkero Lonkero KiX Master Guru Registered: 2001-06-05 Posts: 22346 Loc: OK	programming language(s)??? firs thing is to decide what language you want to learn and then just start to try things. then there is ofcourse books in libraries... _________________________ ! download KiXnet
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#28640 - 2002-09-09 02:29 PM Re: Help!
Shawn Shawn Administrator Registered: 1999-08-13 Posts: 8611	Personally, i see very difference between "scripting" a scripting language and "programming" a programming language ... same thing really - just that one is interpreted and one is compiled. Having said that, for the newcomer learning "programming", scripting languages are the best place to start because you learn programming concepts - without getting bogged-down in low-level nitty-gritty details right from the start. So imho, start "programming" scripting languages (ie, Kixtart or VBS) then if you want to move to a compiled language - Visual Basic would be your best bet ... a TON of beginner books on that.
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#28641 - 2002-09-09 05:14 PM Re: Help!
Richard H. Richard H. Administrator Registered: 2000-01-24 Posts: 4946 Loc: Leatherhead, Surrey, UK	Ah, that's because scripting languages ain't what they used to be. Time was doing any tasks required running a lot of operating system commands one after the other. If (for example) you wanted to set a new user up there was a standard set of commands you'd run to do that, every time. You followed this sequence of commands to the letter, and you'd successfully set your user up. So the command sequence is "scripted". The first scripts were just a way of running each step of your task without actually needing to remember the commands or the order to run them. Time passed and extra facilitles (conditionals, loops, input) were added to make the whole process more useful. I view a scripting language as one where the real work is still done by operating system commands - Unix shell scripts and DOS batch files are good examples. KiXtart falls between - much of what used to be DOS commands is now emulated within KiXtart itself, and many of the features it provides go well beyond a scripting language. I guess JavaScript and VBS are called scripting languages more as a marketing ploy than anything else.
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#28642 - 2002-09-09 05:27 PM Re: Help!
Kdyer Kdyer KiX Supporter Registered: 2001-01-03 Posts: 6241 Loc: Tigard, OR	I agree with Shawn.. If you want to get up and rolling quick with something to compile.. VB is it. However, if you want more structure, go to C++.. Haven't used C# or Delphi, but understand they are very good as well.. Kent _________________________ Utilize these resources: UDFs (Full List) KiXtart FAQ & How to's
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#28643 - 2002-09-09 05:54 PM Re: Help!
sonoslap sonoslap Fresh Scripter Registered: 2002-09-09 Posts: 12 Loc: NC	Holy jesus! im confused ill try my school library... _________________________ ~¿SonOSlap¿~
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#28644 - 2002-09-09 06:01 PM Re: Help!
Shawn Shawn Administrator Registered: 1999-08-13 Posts: 8611	Richard - compositely composed! JavaScript and Perl are great examples of tools that are called "scripting languages" only by virtue of them being interpreted. In fact, Howard can correct me if im wrong - but there is a compiler for Perl now. Cant tell the difference between .pl and .exe anymore (other then by size of the .exe itself). Kent, Yeah - nothing quite beats Visual Basic for getting a really slick application up and running real quick. VB looks after ALL of the low-level details for you. C++ with MFC and/or ATL support - still requires a lot of background (imho). And yeah, .net seems to be (the beginning of) the great language convergence ... but to my mind, still a bit heavy handed in terms of its object oriented bent (for beginners anyways (imho)). For windows application compilers and folks just learning - can't beat VB ... -Shawn [ 09. September 2002, 18:42: Message edited by: Shawn ]
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#28645 - 2002-09-09 06:08 PM Re: Help!
Kdyer Kdyer KiX Supporter Registered: 2001-01-03 Posts: 6241 Loc: Tigard, OR	sonoslap, What are you trying to learn? quote: Hey ppl, I need a good way to learn programming language. I just want to make some of my own programs...Help!? As has been pointed out to you.. There is a difference: Scripting is a "non-compiled" version of code. Programming is using compiled code to make executables and is generally faster as the conversion has been done. HTH, Kent _________________________ Utilize these resources: UDFs (Full List) KiXtart FAQ & How to's
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#28646 - 2002-09-09 07:02 PM Re: Help!
Sealeopard Sealeopard KiX Master Registered: 2001-04-25 Posts: 11165 Loc: Boston, MA, USA	Also, you have to choose the right tool for the job. Thus, if there is a specific task that needs to be accomplished you will have to choose a specific programming or scripting language in order to accomplish this task. However, if you are just generally interested in leaning a more or less generic programming language in order to familiarize yourself with basic programming theorems, then you should give either Visual Basic, Pascal (Borland Delphi), or C++ a try. _________________________ There are two types of vessels, submarines and targets.
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#28647 - 2002-09-09 07:10 PM Re: Help!
Shawn Shawn Administrator Registered: 1999-08-13 Posts: 8611	Yup - very important considerations - compiled languages vs scripted languages and issues (requirements) surrounding speed, speed of development, features, flexibility, supportability and deployment. Plus and minues for each in all columns.
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#28648 - 2002-09-10 09:57 AM Re: Help!
Richard H. Richard H. Administrator Registered: 2000-01-24 Posts: 4946 Loc: Leatherhead, Surrey, UK	Good points guys. Sonoslap, if all you want to do is put together some programs and get a flavour of what you might be able to do then go with VB or similar. It's got a relatively easy learning curve, and more importantly you will be able to create GUI applications within the first hour of reading a tutorial. KiXtart is a lovely language - easy to learn and fun to work with, but to achieve anything "pretty" or "interesting" you really will have to work quite hard - much harder than with a language with drag 'n' drop interfaces. Once you've mastered another language you may come back to KiXtart because it is more appropriate to a job you need to do. Part of the reason the KiXtart community loves the language is because of the tricky things you can do to get the language to perform tasks a long way from it's true purpose. This is great for us, but not so useful for someone starting out. Using VB has it's drawbacks. It simplifies the coding process and hides an awful lot of what is going on. This will make it harder for you to transition to other languages. You might like to consider Java as a good compromise. From what I've seen it's very C++ like, you will learn more about the underlying process than with VB, there is no cost, and quite usefully it is portable across a number of different platforms. If you don't have the runtime environment, you can download it from the Java home page
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#28649 - 2002-09-10 02:20 PM Re: Help!
Bryce Bryce KiX Supporter Registered: 2000-02-29 Posts: 3167 Loc: Houston TX	SonofSlap Well, a good place to start is this BBS, very good group of people. Also take a look at this. http://www.isorg.net/startersguide/Kix_Starters_Guide.zip The best way that i have learned how to program, is to have a project/goal that you want to accomplish. Over the past few years my attempts at kix programming have gone from the simple (simple hello world) to the very complex (multi threaded kix scripts). My advice to you start small, and work your way from there. Bryce
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#28650 - 2002-09-11 02:02 PM Re: Help!
sonoslap sonoslap Fresh Scripter Registered: 2002-09-09 Posts: 12 Loc: NC	Ok, Isorg.net hmmm? wheres isorg? LOL anyways i dont know how to explain really what i am looking for...but i do know that i want to make a program..like anti hacks and hack detectors for starcraft. i heard python was a good first..also, how long will it take to learn this stuff? will i be in college by the time im done? LOL. _________________________ ~¿SonOSlap¿~
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#28651 - 2002-09-11 02:06 PM Re: Help!
sonoslap sonoslap Fresh Scripter Registered: 2002-09-09 Posts: 12 Loc: NC	oh btw, Sad day 2 day... _________________________ ~¿SonOSlap¿~
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#28652 - 2002-09-11 05:16 PM Re: Help!
Sealeopard Sealeopard KiX Master Registered: 2001-04-25 Posts: 11165 Loc: Boston, MA, USA	If you want to write anti-cheat programs for StarCraft (I believe some kind of online game?) then you'd need to go for a fully fledged programming language that allows you to compile code. This will exclude most scripting languages. Your tool of choice would be C++ (though Assembler would be cool [third PL that I had to deal with, #1 was GfA-Basic for Atari ST, #2 was Pascal for Win32, #3 was Assembler for 68030 SBCs]) or alternatively Delphi (Object-Pascal) which has a lower learning curve than C++. _________________________ There are two types of vessels, submarines and targets.
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#28653 - 2002-09-11 06:26 PM Re: Help!
Fernando Madruga Fernando Madruga Starting to like KiXtart Registered: 2002-08-21 Posts: 149 Loc: Coimbra.Portugal.Europe.Earth....	I'd recommend Delphi for what you want. If all else fails, just use: code: asm mov ax, [variable] end or anything else you may want to do with assembler just in the middle of some Pascal code. So you can code "easily" with Delphi and still do some "hard" stuff later when you get to know more... Later, Madruga P.S.: (off-topic) As a side note, I too used GFABasic! It was not just one of 50+ computer languages I've ever used, but also an EXCELENT Basic for that time. In fact, Atari ST had two excelent basics: I don't recall the name (maybe STOS basic) of the second one, but it was a Game oriented basic with pretty good sprite/event handling, the right one for (small) game development. That was not enough to save it, though... _________________________ Later, [b]Mad[/b]ruga
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#28654 - 2002-09-11 06:46 PM Re: Help!
Sealeopard Sealeopard KiX Master Registered: 2001-04-25 Posts: 11165 Loc: Boston, MA, USA	I think the Atari ST was what hooked me to computers and GfA-Basic to programming. I never had a C64, though, or even a Sinclair (a friend had one of those)). I'm still amazed at those video swaps where you display one block of memory as the current display while you're redirecting all screen writes to a second block of memory. You'd then switch the addresses for the screen output and were able to generate very smooth animations. Or finding somebody with an EEPROM burner in order to upgrade the basic OS. _________________________ There are two types of vessels, submarines and targets.
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#28655 - 2002-09-11 07:02 PM Re: Help!
Shawn Shawn Administrator Registered: 1999-08-13 Posts: 8611	Hehee - I'm a Texas Instruments TI-99/4A guy myself ... cut my teeth on building silly tank games in TIBASIC ... Timex Sinclairs ... still got a couple of those ... make a great door stops and kitty litter scoops ... Commodore 64 fan myself .... Amiga too ... way ahead of its time (at the time) ... real trip down memory lane.
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#28656 - 2002-09-11 07:13 PM Re: Help!
Howard Bullock Howard Bullock KiX Supporter Registered: 2000-09-15 Posts: 5809 Loc: Harrisburg, PA USA	My first script was a perpetual loop of "I was here" scrolling diagonally down the screen of a C64 on the department store shelf. _________________________ Home page: http://www.kixhelp.com/hb/
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#28657 - 2002-09-11 07:16 PM Re: Help!
Shawn Shawn Administrator Registered: 1999-08-13 Posts: 8611	I'll never forget the C64 keyboard ... with all those funky graphics characters on the front (not top) of the keyboard keys ... what a mess ... but you gotta love it ... Think sonoslap might be giving us all a "slap" if he has email notifications enabled on this thread
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