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#141738 - 2005-06-15 08:59 PM Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
iffy iffy Starting to like KiXtart Registered: 2005-05-29 Posts: 149 Loc: The Netherlands	Ok, before you shoot me I'd like to state that I don't agree with the subject title but I hope it got your attention I got into a discussion with a project manager at a customers site about about scripts, and logon scripts in general. He had a clear dislike for kixtart and vbs was the only real option, or so he said. I couldn't get any real argument but I suspect he simply does not know kixtart and just yells what he's read somewhere that vbs is the way to go. Anyway, I was quite busy and cought a little of guard so I got a little cornered because I was only half listening to what was being said. What I need now is some good arguments why you'd want to use kixtart instead of vbscript. I know you can use both, and each has it's own merits but for good (personal) reasons I really need a creditable list of pro's for kix and cons for vbscript. Where better to look for help while I'm a bit time pressured then here I thought. Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks.
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#141739 - 2005-06-15 09:10 PM Re: Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
Kdyer Kdyer KiX Supporter Registered: 2001-01-03 Posts: 6241 Loc: Tigard, OR	Hmm.. We have had this discussion before.. Let me see a search.. Kent _________________________ Utilize these resources: UDFs (Full List) KiXtart FAQ & How to's
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#141740 - 2005-06-15 09:24 PM Re: Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
Bryce Bryce KiX Supporter Registered: 2000-02-29 Posts: 3167 Loc: Houston TX	Talk about your loaded questions! My reasons i used KiXtart as my logon script back in 1999. We were in the process of moving from a Novell to a WinNT network, and needed a way to recreate Novell’s logon script/group membership drive mappings... and other stuff. First was .bat files and ingroup.exe i think... it was slow, and i didn’t like it. Second was vb script... but the hoops that I, at the time a script noob, had to jump though just to get group memberships, was just painful, also the syntax of vbscript just rubbed me the wrong way. To many steps needed to do simple tasks. Also not all computers in my company at the time were able to run vbscript Win3x to Win9x I looked at Perl.. for about 30 seconds. Then i found this little script language called KiXtart, one that MS was pushing as a logon script in the resource kit at the time. It had built in group memberships, the syntax was very close to BASIC (something that i did know very well), also the ability to edit reg entrys, read ini files... and so much stuff built into 1 single easy to use exe, made it the obvious choice. Then about 6 months later... i found this board. Reasons today that I still use KiXtart, I have found that the syntax to be the easiest for non script gurus to be able to modify. Many of my scripts for work once birthed, are never seen by me again. So they need to be easy for others to work on. Kixforms! The KORG Collective. Bryce
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#141741 - 2005-06-15 09:58 PM Re: Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
Kdyer Kdyer KiX Supporter Registered: 2001-01-03 Posts: 6241 Loc: Tigard, OR	One of the biggies you miss Bryce is Virii. That is, remember Melissa, etc.? There are no KiXtart virii floating around there (at least to my knowledge). Kent _________________________ Utilize these resources: UDFs (Full List) KiXtart FAQ & How to's
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#141742 - 2005-06-15 10:32 PM Re: Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
Co Co MM club member Registered: 2000-11-20 Posts: 1342 Loc: NL	My story is almost the same like Bryce's. I use Kix since +/- 1997. We did use it as a loginscript in an Windows NT environment with Windows 3.11 and Windows 95 clients. KORG didn't exist yet but there were some create websites with usefull examples. I'm not sure if VBS is better than Kix. I have made scripts in both languages but still I prefer Kix. Besides I don't know a better board than KORG. I'm not a programmer, so I need to search for examples and pieces of code to build my own.... Edited by Co (2005-06-15 10:37 PM) _________________________ Co
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#141743 - 2005-06-15 10:53 PM Re: Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
NTDOC NTDOC Administrator Registered: 2000-07-28 Posts: 11625 Loc: CA	Well there is not doubt that VB has some powers that KiX does not. If you notice there are some UDF scripts that call to the WSH object to do the task. VBscript also has regex engine for better data parsing. However in many cases it can take anywhere from an additional line of code to dozens of lines of code more to complete the same task in VBscript that KiX can do via a macro or small piece of code. As Kent says, there are no known virus/worms/tojans directed at KiXtart (mainly because there is no file assoication for auto launching KiXtart as there is with VBscript/WSH) This Website alone is better then ANY other resource I'm currently aware of to help you complete a scripting task. There are plenty of VB sites, but none that I've found are as quickly responded to. So if you didn't know how to do something in VB you may or may not get an answer the same day from other sites. Rarely do you ever go more then a couple hours here on Korg before someone responds with information or code on how to complete your task. That alone is well worth working with KiXtart. Also as previously mentioned it is a much easier language to pick up and learn then VBscript. So if you move on and someone with little or no experience comes along in your place, they will be up and running much sooner then they would be if everything was written in VBscript. ie. They could learn KiXtart and be productive faster then they would with VB.
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#141744 - 2005-06-15 11:02 PM Re: Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
Co Co MM club member Registered: 2000-11-20 Posts: 1342 Loc: NL	And don't forget Kixforms. Did you ever made a form with VBS... I don't like it at all!! _________________________ Co
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#141745 - 2005-06-16 01:43 PM Re: Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
maciep maciep Korg Regular Registered: 2002-06-14 Posts: 947 Loc: Pittsburgh	I think only think that i like about vbscript more than kix, is how it handles command-line arguments - that's it. The error handling in vbscript is annoying and not very intuitive. I've had some vbscripts littered with err.Clear() because the object would never drop a previous err (one i already handled). And i've had to add On Error Resume Next to my scripts (which is poor technique), because some errors would just bomb out the script before i could handle them. In vbscript you need to create an object to do just about anything worthwhile whereas kix has ridiculous amount built-in functionality to handle so many of those common admin tasks - very convenient and very efficient. And vbscripts syntax gets on my last nerve. Why do i have to use Set when creating objects - how necessary can that possibly be. And the most annoying keyword ever, "Then". I don't know how many times i've left that off of a series of "if" statements. It's just absolutely f-ing useless to even have it there - some things should just be implied. And for no real valid reason, i don't like its Do-while and Do-Until loops either. Oh and all of the other reasons mentioned above as well.
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#141746 - 2005-06-16 01:55 PM Re: Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
AzzerShaw AzzerShaw Seasoned Scripter Registered: 2003-02-20 Posts: 510 Loc: Cheltenham, England	My two cents With a lot of companies migrating to windows 2003 and a lot of network administrators studying the 2003 mcse track, all of the scripting questions are on VB and architects and project leaders tend to just go with this because its M$ recommended...although m$ recommend you use internet explorer and Media player but thats another matter I prefer Kix because it has a better community, that simple _________________________ If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it. - W.C Fields
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#141747 - 2005-06-16 02:12 PM Re: Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
Shawn Shawn Administrator Registered: 1999-08-13 Posts: 8611	Eric, you echoed my sentiments perfectly... vbscript .... 1) ...has extremely annoying syntax (expecially the "Then") 2) ...has way too little built-in functionality for login scripting 3) ... is way too fussy about syntax in general (vbscript is "persnickety") -Shawn
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#141748 - 2005-06-16 03:15 PM Re: Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
maciep maciep Korg Regular Registered: 2002-06-14 Posts: 947 Loc: Pittsburgh	Shawn, i guess it is true - great minds do think alike. And one more thing, a single quote for comments? All that does is make it more confusing to insert double quotes in a string.
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#141749 - 2005-06-19 07:18 PM Re: Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
Sealeopard Sealeopard KiX Master Registered: 2001-04-25 Posts: 11165 Loc: Boston, MA, USA	Quote: He had a clear dislike for kixtart and vbs was the only real option, or so he said I'm really curious about his specific reasons why he'd prefer VBScript over KiXtart. There might be a couple of legitimate reasons, but for a serious discussion of the merits of various scripting languages, one should also talk about the tasks to be solved. _________________________ There are two types of vessels, submarines and targets.
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#141750 - 2005-06-19 10:54 PM Re: Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
Co Co MM club member Registered: 2000-11-20 Posts: 1342 Loc: NL	unfortunately he isn't the only one. There are lots of managers who are thinking the same way. Why? Because they never have used both products. They only have seen some presentation or read something about VBS. I have done lots of projects for many companies. Managers like this really exists . They are the ones who killed Novell Netware and who thinks you can run m$ office on a Linuxbox.... _________________________ Co
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#141751 - 2006-09-21 01:17 PM Re: Is vbscript really better then kixtart?
Jochen Jochen KiX Supporter Registered: 2000-03-17 Posts: 6380 Loc: Stuttgart, Germany	Quote: One of the biggies you miss Bryce is Virii. That is, remember Melissa, etc.? There are no KiXtart virii floating around there (at least to my knowledge). Kent Well there was ONE last year ... something with KiXlam ... It was never seen in the wild as it was too noob-ish _________________________
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