Page all of 2 12>
Topic Options
#210699 - 2015-09-05 05:36 PM KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down
rclarke Offline
Starting to like KiXtart
*****

Registered: 2001-06-08
Posts: 178
Loc: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom.
Well, long time no post ... and when I do finally come back it is to be the bearer of bad news \:\(

I have hosted KiXforms.org with a commercial hosting provider for nearly 13 years now, but the last 8 years have been very quiet with minimal traffic other than the odd person using the forum to look up legacy support material. My hosting provider used to run a quality operation, but times have changed and their servers are being constantly re-listed on Spamhaus blocking lists as their support org fail to weed out the spammers. This Spamhaus blocking is severely disrupting my private email which is hosted on the same package as the KiXforms site, so it looks like I need to bite the bullet and move to a new hosting provider. That being the case, I think it makes sense to retire the KiXforms.org web site rather than expend considerable effort reinstating it somewhere else. Unless there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth at the potential demise of KiXforms.org then the web site will close down some time in late November when my current hosting contract expires. As they say, it was good while it lasted \:\)

Rod.

Top
#210700 - 2015-09-05 08:02 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: rclarke]
Glenn Barnas Administrator Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2003-01-28
Posts: 4297
Loc: New Jersey
Hey KORG!

I have a pretty robust infrastructure here at home - 50M commercial Internet, Server 2012 web platforms, ESX 5.5 Enterprise servers, and I already host a few sites. What I don't have is a lot of time right now. If anyone is interested in helping, I'd certainly be willing to host the KF site - at least until a decision is made to integrate it into KORG or not. If it's currently a LAMP based system, maybe we could transfer the host images directly to my VM infrastructure?

Anyone interested in helping? I can do the security, VM configs, and other infrastructure stuff - I could use help with the migration and ongoing management (which, based on recent history, should be minimal).

Glenn
_________________________
Actually I am a Rocket Scientist! \:D

Top
#210701 - 2015-09-05 09:50 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Glenn Barnas]
Lonkero Administrator Offline
KiX Master Guru
*****

Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 22339
Loc: OK
Make it so.
_________________________
!

download KiXnet

Top
#210702 - 2015-09-06 12:34 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Glenn Barnas]
rclarke Offline
Starting to like KiXtart
*****

Registered: 2001-06-08
Posts: 178
Loc: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom.
Hi Glenn,

Thanks for the offer; however, my personal email account and several others are KiXforms' addresses and therefore I need to retain full control over those domain names for now.

Rod.

Top
#210703 - 2015-09-06 05:01 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: rclarke]
Allen Administrator Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2003-04-19
Posts: 4467
Loc: USA
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why do you have to lose control of the domain or email if someone else hosts the website? Its just some DNS changes.
Top
#210704 - 2015-09-06 03:22 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Allen]
Glenn Barnas Administrator Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2003-01-28
Posts: 4297
Loc: New Jersey
Indeed - we don't need to transfer the domain (and I had never considered that, actually), just change the DNS references for WWW.

If that works, we could start before November by using a non-WWW host on my current domain for deployment and testing, and then simply re-point the domain to the new server when you're ready to transfer.

Glenn
_________________________
Actually I am a Rocket Scientist! \:D

Top
#210705 - 2015-09-06 03:35 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Glenn Barnas]
rclarke Offline
Starting to like KiXtart
*****

Registered: 2001-06-08
Posts: 178
Loc: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom.
The new hosting package I had selected is email only with no domain forwarding functionality for web traffic. TBH guys, considering that over 99.9% of all traffic to KForg in the last 7+ years has just been search crawlers, I think it is time to let it go. Anybody who still uses KF will know about this site, so it is no great loss.

Rod.

Top
#210706 - 2015-09-06 05:25 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: rclarke]
Allen Administrator Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2003-04-19
Posts: 4467
Loc: USA
I hear what you are saying Rod, but here's the thing, that information about how to use Kixforms is still valuable, and Glenn is offering to host the site for nothing. I'll be honest, it would be no big loss to me because I have never been a kixforms user, but if I ever had to do a project, I can't think of any place I would go to first.

The forwarding that you mention is not necessary. All we have to do is adjust the dns record for www to point to Glenn's server. Most Domain Registrars provide dns now, so it would be a simple change that you or one of us could make. In fact, your email requires the DNS settings too, so somewhere you will have access to these records, in either a web portal, or a phone call.

Please forgive me if you know all this, but many of my customers THINKS that they have to give control of the domain to the web hosting company before said web hosting company can host the website. If this happens to be something that someone has told you, this could not be further from the truth. Having your domain at a Registrar (Godaddy as an example) means that you have control of the domain, and you can specify the records to where they point to. Your website, email, etc do not have to be at Godaddy, even though the domain could be registered there. This also works in reverse, you could have services with GoDaddy, but have the domain registered at ENOM. DNS does all the work. If and when you need to move the web site hosting, email server, etc, YOU can make the changes to DNS to new servers, and not have to transfer the domain.

Top
#210707 - 2015-09-06 06:18 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Allen]
rclarke Offline
Starting to like KiXtart
*****

Registered: 2001-06-08
Posts: 178
Loc: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom.
There are two issues here. The first is that there is absolutely no pressing need for KForg to point to another server as nowadays the number of real person visits to KForg is miniscule. If you know about KiXforms then you know about KiXtart, which means you know about kixtart.org. Second is that I think it has been assumed that I will simply hand over a full data dump of the KiXforms site to someone else to do with as they please. Due to various privacy issues and concerns (especially with forum member data and archived private messages), that will not be the case. If your prime worry is losing useful KF data then KForg has been fully crawled by the Wayback Machine (archive.org) and therefore a record of forum posts has already been preserved for posterity. Incidentally, I did contact Shawn a couple of years ago about shutting down the web site due to inactivity and his response was "sure, go ahead, it has run its course".

Rod.

Top
#210708 - 2015-09-06 06:27 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: rclarke]
Allen Administrator Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2003-04-19
Posts: 4467
Loc: USA
I get the privacy thing, but that was not brought up to start with, and I was simply trying to provide advice on moving the website if it was an option.

Seems you've already made the decision. Sayonara Kixforms.

Top
#210709 - 2015-09-06 11:33 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Allen]
Glenn Barnas Administrator Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2003-01-28
Posts: 4297
Loc: New Jersey
Guys,

I have the web-html files for classic and dot-net, as well as the download packages. I'll add them to the Kix page on my site so that reference material will be available.

Really, all we need to do is add a KF forum to KORG if we want to maintain a separate place for Q&A, if not use this forum (COM). (I'd prefer a separate KF forum, personally.) Add the KF packages to our download page and we're good to go. Yes, we'll lose some good info from the posts, but as Rod pointed out, that information is quite old.

If we use a separate forum, we could grab some of the example threads and post them on KORG.

Glenn
_________________________
Actually I am a Rocket Scientist! \:D

Top
#210710 - 2015-09-07 12:27 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Glenn Barnas]
Allen Administrator Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2003-04-19
Posts: 4467
Loc: USA
I think Lonk is the only active member that has permissions to add forums.
Top
#210712 - 2015-09-07 01:24 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Allen]
It_took_my_meds Offline
Hey THIS is FUN
*****

Registered: 2003-05-07
Posts: 273
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I for one am very disappointed to hear this. I am however not surprised. I've invested many years writing KiXforms code and I don't really visit KiXforms.org because I know the library so well (and much more than is actually documented in the help file). That is not to say I don't ever reference the help file however...

What disappoints me the most however is Shawn's comment "sure, go ahead, it has run its course". Shawn, I have asked this before, now I am pleading. Would you please host the source code on github or sourceforge? That way KiXforms won't die and can be upgraded by the community to support features of new versions of Windows. Otherwise not only will it lose relevance, the apps we have written with it will too. For me, this is many years of effort and 10's of thousands of lines of code.

Top
#210713 - 2015-09-07 11:04 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: It_took_my_meds]
rclarke Offline
Starting to like KiXtart
*****

Registered: 2001-06-08
Posts: 178
Loc: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom.
As I made clear in my original post, Shawn's paraphrased comment to me was specifically about the KForg web site, and NOT the actual KiXforms library.

The truth of the matter is that I have kept KForg limping along for over 8 years after its heyday. As I PM'ed with Allen yesterday, I too have invested countless hours of effort, in building and maintaining the KF site and it is personally very sad to see its demise, but you have to face facts that us KiXtarters are dwindling in number. Furthermore, over the last 13 years I have spent nearly $2,000 on hosting and domain name fees, and received just $75 in donations, so maybe it wasn't as highly valued (in that sense) by as many as you may think. If it makes a few people happy then I can think about keeping the old girl running for another year or so for old times' sake, but is it actually achieving anything?

Rod.

Top
#210714 - 2015-09-07 12:01 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: rclarke]
It_took_my_meds Offline
Hey THIS is FUN
*****

Registered: 2003-05-07
Posts: 273
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Rod, your commitment is highly commendable and I am extremely grateful. I really want KiXforms (and KiXtart) to stay relevant, that is all. And... for what it is worth, I donated to your website. Although $20 or so (I can't remember the exact amount and it was in Australian dollars) is nothing compared to what you yourself have contributed. I think open sourcing could really reinvigorate things.

Thank you sincerely.

Top
#210715 - 2015-09-07 12:20 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Glenn Barnas]
Mart Moderator Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2002-03-27
Posts: 4642
Loc: The Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: Glenn Barnas

....

Really, all we need to do is add a KF forum to KORG if we want to maintain a separate place for Q&A, if not use this forum (COM). (I'd prefer a separate KF forum, personally.) Add the KF packages to our download page and we're good to go. Yes, we'll lose some good info from the posts, but as Rod pointed out, that information is quite old.

....


Agreed.

To be honest I visited kforg sometimes when I just started using kixforms but the last few years it became less and less. I still use kixforms for some apps but I just do not need to kforg sire anymore. Adding a separate section (I guess this is called a forum) for kixforms would be great as kix and kixforms are related it makes sense to have it all on one site.

I also need to agree with "meds". If Shawn has no time (or interest) anymore in maintaining the code then it would be great if it could be made public somehow.

Thanks for all the years of support and keeping to site up and running Rod.
_________________________
Mart

- Chuck Norris once sold ebay to ebay on ebay.

Top
#210716 - 2015-09-07 01:15 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: It_took_my_meds]
rclarke Offline
Starting to like KiXtart
*****

Registered: 2001-06-08
Posts: 178
Loc: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom.
 Originally Posted By: It_took_my_meds
Rod, your commitment is highly commendable and I am extremely grateful. I really want KiXforms (and KiXtart) to stay relevant, that is all. And... for what it is worth, I donated to your website. Although $20 or so (I can't remember the exact amount and it was in Australian dollars) is nothing compared to what you yourself have contributed. I think open sourcing could really reinvigorate things.

Thank you for both your comments and your donation ... you can consider yourself a proud member of a very select club as there were just five "donaters" over the years \:\)

I completely agree that open sourcing could invigorate the whole KiXtart/KiXforms world, but whether that will happen or not rests entirely with others. Sadly, I stopped using KiXtart/KiXforms back in 2008 when the company I worked for was acquired by another and my role changed, but I learned a hell of a lot about web technologies and OOP along the way which has stood me in good stead since so I don't regret the journey one bit \:\)

Rod.

Top
#210717 - 2015-09-07 03:38 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: rclarke]
rclarke Offline
Starting to like KiXtart
*****

Registered: 2001-06-08
Posts: 178
Loc: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom.
 Originally Posted By: Mart
Thanks for all the years of support and keeping to site up and running Rod.

You are very welcome Mart \:\)

Top
#210718 - 2015-09-08 12:45 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: rclarke]
Arend_ Moderator Offline
MM club member
*****

Registered: 2005-01-17
Posts: 1867
Loc: Hilversum, The Netherlands
Although I find it sad to see kf.com go, it is time I suppose.
I remember working with Shawn on parts of the code trying to incorporate some .net libraries which has been very interesting to say the least and fun most of all.
However, that time has long since passed.
Even in my job as a Systems Engineer for a large company I use KiXtart less and less, only for the quick results I still use it.
The last time I actually used Kixforms was almost 8 years ago to write a LDAP browser in kixforms.net and that was only because I was bored.
And the last time I actually referenced kix.com I can't even remember.
And how many times did we joke about Shawn actually mentioning something here on the forum and then being AWOL for months/years again.

So what I'm trying to say is Thank You Rod, for keeping it alive as long as you did.
I do believe in making the kixforms code open source on github or codeplex so people can learn from it. I don't think it is a viable solution for people to maintain the code as it is smarter for new users to learn PowerShell for forms-based scripting.

Top
#210719 - 2015-09-08 03:08 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Arend_]
Glenn Barnas Administrator Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2003-01-28
Posts: 4297
Loc: New Jersey
Wow - if you guys think that KixForms is just about forms, you're missing the boat! I can't tell you how many non-GUI apps that I have rely on the KF DLL for event-driven and timer-driven code. Not to mention so advanced math and communication capabilities...

I've got 5 different apps that use KF just for Socket communications.

Glenn
_________________________
Actually I am a Rocket Scientist! \:D

Top
#210720 - 2015-09-08 04:30 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Glenn Barnas]
Arend_ Moderator Offline
MM club member
*****

Registered: 2005-01-17
Posts: 1867
Loc: Hilversum, The Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: Glenn Barnas
Wow - if you guys think that KixForms is just about forms, you're missing the boat! I can't tell you how many non-GUI apps that I have rely on the KF DLL for event-driven and timer-driven code. Not to mention so advanced math and communication capabilities...

I've got 5 different apps that use KF just for Socket communications.

Glenn


Well that's not true, the "Forms" is what 95% of the users actually use it for.
The rest of us used it for more, but those features were mostly undocumented.

Again, my reasoning still stands, new people are better off using PowerShell, it can do everything KixForms can and more, just slower ;\)

Top
#210721 - 2015-09-08 07:26 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Arend_]
Lonkero Administrator Offline
KiX Master Guru
*****

Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 22339
Loc: OK
Ok. Just to get this out there, powershell is a joke.

And yes, once you fight a week, you can make it read a file and do other nice things. Until it no longer works and you spend a week trying to memorize why the syntax was so bad and how did you made it in the first place.

Powershell is the de facto example of how to not make a language.
_________________________
!

download KiXnet

Top
#210722 - 2015-09-08 07:30 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Lonkero]
Lonkero Administrator Offline
KiX Master Guru
*****

Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 22339
Loc: OK
Then to kf, I don't remember the original but in kf.net Shawn didn't allow any commits if the documentation wasn't there. As a result, the documentation for kf.net IO (files, memory streams and sockets) should be better than kixtart documentation in general.
_________________________
!

download KiXnet

Top
#210723 - 2015-09-08 11:30 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Lonkero]
Allen Administrator Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2003-04-19
Posts: 4467
Loc: USA
 Quote:

Ok. Just to get this out there, powershell is a joke.

And yes, once you fight a week, you can make it read a file and do other nice things. Until it no longer works and you spend a week trying to memorize why the syntax was so bad and how did you made it in the first place.

Powershell is the de facto example of how to not make a language.


Can I get an AMEN!

Top
#210724 - 2015-09-09 12:26 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Allen]
Glenn Barnas Administrator Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2003-01-28
Posts: 4297
Loc: New Jersey
AMEN, Brotha! \:D
_________________________
Actually I am a Rocket Scientist! \:D

Top
#210725 - 2015-09-09 01:05 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Glenn Barnas]
ShaneEP Moderator Offline
MM club member
*****

Registered: 2002-11-29
Posts: 2081
Loc: Tulsa, OK
I agree with most points here. I still visit the kixforms site from time to time, as some of the undocumented features are discussed on the forums there (grid view for example). However, new posts are few and far between, and an entire site is probably not needed as long as the content is cached somewhere. I do think a kixforms section should be added to the forum here however. I myself have posted several kixforms related questions in the COM section here, knowing that it would at least get an audience. And Rod, thank you for your continuing efforts. I still use kixforms to this day, which wouldn't have been possible without people like you.
Top
#210726 - 2015-09-09 01:43 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: ShaneEP]
It_took_my_meds Offline
Hey THIS is FUN
*****

Registered: 2003-05-07
Posts: 273
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I'll weigh in on the Powershell discussion. It's good in the fact you can access the .Net framework (which is something I would dearly love Ruud to add to KiXtart), but it's variable scoping is beyond retarded. Something that also bugs me is that you cannot call a function until the function code has been read by the interpreter. That means you have to have all your functions at the top of the script and your main code at the bottom. It might be trivial to some, but I find it annoying. The syntax is also horrible, so AMEN!

Cheers,

Richard

Top
#210727 - 2015-09-09 01:48 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: It_took_my_meds]
NTDOC Administrator Offline
Administrator
*****

Registered: 2000-07-28
Posts: 11574
Loc: CA
New Kixforms forum created here. When,where, how much is added here is up for continued discussion. As most others have said already - Thank you again Rod for all the time, money and effort provided for hosting and supporting the Kixforms website and forums for so long. Greatly appreciated.


Kixforms
http://www.kixtart.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=15&page=1

Top
#210728 - 2015-09-09 09:23 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: NTDOC]
Mart Moderator Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2002-03-27
Posts: 4642
Loc: The Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: NTDOC
New Kixforms forum created here. When,where, how much is added here is up for continued discussion.

....

Kixforms
http://www.kixtart.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=15&page=1


Thanks Doc.
_________________________
Mart

- Chuck Norris once sold ebay to ebay on ebay.

Top
#210732 - 2015-09-10 02:36 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Mart]
Glenn Barnas Administrator Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2003-01-28
Posts: 4297
Loc: New Jersey
Thanks Doc!
_________________________
Actually I am a Rocket Scientist! \:D

Top
#210734 - 2015-09-11 03:03 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: Glenn Barnas]
NTDOC Administrator Offline
Administrator
*****

Registered: 2000-07-28
Posts: 11574
Loc: CA
NP, thank you guys. Now let's put some stuff in there :-)
Top
#210735 - 2015-09-11 03:23 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: NTDOC]
It_took_my_meds Offline
Hey THIS is FUN
*****

Registered: 2003-05-07
Posts: 273
Loc: Sydney, Australia
The thing is I don't think there will be many posts there. Discussion in the KiXforms forums came to a halt once Shawn stopped being active. I'll futilely say it once again (and I know I'm sounding like a broken record) but posting a link to the source code repository would be really nice. Shawn (or someone else he trusts and respects like Lonk) could then accept proposed commits if they wish (in order to ensure code quality).

Then stand back in awe as features are added and the discussion takes off on the new forum you've created. People wouldn't even need to commit code they could also help with documentation like adding Gridview properties, methods, and events in classic. Long live KiXforms!

Regards,

Richard

Top
#210736 - 2015-09-11 03:37 AM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: It_took_my_meds]
It_took_my_meds Offline
Hey THIS is FUN
*****

Registered: 2003-05-07
Posts: 273
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I'll also add it could put some new life into KiXtart.org and KiXtart in general.
Top
#210737 - 2015-09-11 12:32 PM Re: KiXforms.org Web Site Closing Down [Re: It_took_my_meds]
Lonkero Administrator Offline
KiX Master Guru
*****

Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 22339
Loc: OK
Oh. I thought it was a new website design that did that trick ;\)
_________________________
!

download KiXnet

Top
Page all of 2 12>


Moderator:  Shawn, ShaneEP, Arend_, Jochen, Radimus, Glenn Barnas, Allen, Mart 
Hop to:
Shout Box

Who's Online
1 registered (Dr_Rick) and 178 anonymous users online.
Newest Members
PureKoala, 7hjd2, jswizz, Andrewpaul, emmamillathompso
17649 Registered Users

Generated in 0.053 seconds in which 0.012 seconds were spent on a total of 13 queries. Zlib compression enabled.

Search the board with:
superb Board Search
or try with google:
Google
Web kixtart.org