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#210458 - 2015-07-31 11:47 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Lonkero]
Robdutoit Offline
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The reason I want the router is so that everything is consistent at every client. As I still need a modem it makes sense to use the newer vdsl2 modems which are integrated with the routers. for this particular client I think that I need to have modem and router separate as its FTTP not FTTC. But the other clients are all FTTC so I have one modem/router device and I think that is preferable to configuring the linux box for vdsl.
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#210459 - 2015-08-01 02:04 AM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Robdutoit]
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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Fttc and fttp does not matter but what is the hand-off medium to your clients
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#210460 - 2015-08-01 10:52 AM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Lonkero]
Robdutoit Offline
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It does matter if the router does not support. The latest BT Router can be used with FTTC but it does not support FTTP. I specifically asked BT and they said that the router would not work with FTTP - I had to use a modem - which incidentally looks different from the other BT modems at the other clients using FTTC
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#210461 - 2015-08-01 04:00 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Robdutoit]
Robdutoit Offline
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Actually I might need to do away with the router after all. I currently am forwarding certain ports. It might be easier to forward them if I don't have effectively two routers - the BT router and the second Nic on the Linux box eitherwise I will be forwarding from the router to the linux box and then on to somewhere else. So I will look into setting up VDSL2 on my linux box as well.

Unless I just allow everything to come in on the BT router and have the linux box as the only firewall.


Edited by Robdutoit (2015-08-01 04:31 PM)

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#210462 - 2015-08-01 07:20 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Robdutoit]
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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So, it comes back to what I already said. Fttc, fttp, ftth. It does not matter. What matters is the handoff. It sounds like you do not need their router in any location but do need a modem in one. And from the sounds of it, you do use other services on those boxes on top of routing and DNS. You already mentioned firewall and judging by your setup most likely NAT as well.
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#210463 - 2015-08-01 07:24 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Lonkero]
Robdutoit Offline
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Yes I have just worked that out. I thought that I would see how difficult it was to setup my windows 7 computer directly to the modem. I was amazed at how simple it was. Took me less than 60 seconds.

Ok, so I will get rid of the router as there is no difference in configuring the second nic for ppoe or for standard ip address to connect to router - in that every client will have a different config!

So the new setup will be modem - 2nd nic - 1st nic - switch - idiot client computers

Man I should stop asking questions - I am starting to look bad here! Oh well as they say, everyday you learn something is a day not totally wasted!

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#210464 - 2015-08-01 07:27 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Lonkero]
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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To be fair to their device, I have choked expensive Cisco firewalls with WLAN traffic. Some devices handle resource exhaustion better than others but they all have their limits.
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#210465 - 2015-08-01 07:32 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Lonkero]
Robdutoit Offline
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well the bt router was working for two years without any issues. Problems only started on the 19th June when the router rebooted with a new firmware update. Not that I clicked at the time. But the system definitely needs to be improved anyway.

Edited by Robdutoit (2015-08-01 07:32 PM)

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#210466 - 2015-08-01 07:53 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Robdutoit]
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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PPoE? someone still does those? you sound like americans living in the 80's with their checkbooks and stuff.

check your modem config, pretty much any modem/router nowadays should be able to handle PPoE internally giving you clean tcp/ip in the output.
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#210467 - 2015-08-01 08:27 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Lonkero]
Robdutoit Offline
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well maybe it does not use PPOE. I also thought the name was interesting as that is what I used Adsl. But windows 7 calls it PPPOE, but that is probably just a generic name. I don't know what the hell the protocols in use actually are.
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#210468 - 2015-08-01 08:45 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Robdutoit]
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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pppoe is even better because it looks more awful and is the correct name Point-to-Point Protocol Over Ethernet. some of the wise guys in here can correct me but imo, PPPoE was only implemented so that the old telco's could keep tabs on the users like they did in the older dial-up ages. I never understood the need or the level of idiocy that took place to implementing something like that on larger scale. The connection takes long to establish and some bytes in EVERY frame are wasted for the overhead. So you are actually slowed down by poor design decision by people who should know better.


Edited by Lonkero (2015-08-01 09:11 PM)
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#210469 - 2015-08-01 08:48 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Lonkero]
Robdutoit Offline
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Ok, we were not talking about the same thing. I was talking about PPPOE - I just missed a P! Its definitely not using PPOE
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#210470 - 2015-08-01 09:11 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Robdutoit]
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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PPPOE is what I am talking about. I fixed the only reference to PPoE in my previous post to make it clear. Missing P or not (point to point over ethernet or point to point protocol over ethernet), it still is a bad design. it's like using PPTP private networking but it is enforced by your ISP and there is no benefit to you, only bad things.

Edited by Lonkero (2015-08-01 09:14 PM)
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#210471 - 2015-08-01 09:47 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Lonkero]
Robdutoit Offline
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well unless you can suggest an alternative it looks like I setup pppoe on the second nic to connect to the VDSL modem which then does whatever it does. What do you use if you don't use ppoe to connect your nic to your modem?

A quick google check states that BT Infinity uses PPPOE so I guess thats that.


Edited by Robdutoit (2015-08-01 09:54 PM)

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#210472 - 2015-08-01 10:27 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Robdutoit]
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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yea. like I said, poor design decisions...

I think the last PPPoE connection I've seen was in 2006-2007 in the scarcely populated northern Finland by a small local telco.
the previous occurence was around 2003 in one location is central Finland and even then it was like, wth, why?

anywho... like you said, that's that. Not like you are going to have a lot of choice of providers which hopefully will change over time as unbundling regulation finally starts working in UK.
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#210473 - 2015-08-01 10:38 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Lonkero]
Robdutoit Offline
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what are they using in Finland now just out of interest just in case the UK decide to catch up with the rest of the world?
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#210474 - 2015-08-01 10:50 PM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Robdutoit]
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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I would say nothing. PPPoE is just overhead layer on top of a working connection that does not bring any benefits.
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#210475 - 2015-08-02 10:53 AM Re: Advice on troubleshooting network issues [Re: Lonkero]
Robdutoit Offline
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Glenn I was having a look around and the consensus seems to be some people prefer using root hints and some people prefer using forwarders. In my opinion both options have their strengths and weaknesses. Forwarders rely on your ISP informing you that they are changing their DNS Servers and you may experience the unlikely event that both their DNS servers would go down. But then I always have the option to use root hints if dns servers are unavailable, so its redundant.

Root hints is slower than using forwarders and you also have the issue of some wierd windows bug or update causing issues - this has happened more than once.

As the primary problem with my network issue is to do with the actual Router, I will for the moment set the windows servers to forward to the ISP Dns Servers rather than forward to the BT Router. I am going to be getting rid of the router by connecting the linux firewall directly to the modem.

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