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#210329 - 2015-06-07 10:50 AM Anyone thinking of upgrading to Windows 10
Robdutoit Offline
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Registered: 2012-03-27
Posts: 336
Loc: London, England
I have been looking at Windows 10 and it does seem to offer some appeal. Apparently its going to look like an improved version of windows 7 that just happens to be tablet friendly and is going to be even faster and lighter on resources than windows 8 and windows 7.

Given that the market (that I work in anyways) is moving more and more towards tablets and BYOD I think that an OS that works on tablets and computers is inevitable and it sounds like they got it right in windows 10. So for my clients I might eventually upgrade.

Having said that, I have not used it yet, so may change my mind very quickly after using it. For me windows 7 works beautifully. Its reliable, its not slow, has a clean and familiar gui, I can deploy using WDS, update using WSUS, install apps using WSUS Package Publisher. I am not seeing any real benefits to windows 10. But then again I am not a tablet fan either!

I do know that anyone that has windows 8 will be better off on windows 10 as windows 8 was a bugger up from start to finish in my opinion. I am just not seeing any benefit to jump from windows 7 as windows 7 is not exactly slow and the tablet functionality is not my biggest requirement on a desktop! So for my home pc I probably will stick with windows 7.

I also wonder how kixtart will work on windows 10.

What are you guys going to do if you are running windows 7 on your computers.?

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#210330 - 2015-06-07 04:36 PM Re: Anyone thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 [Re: Robdutoit]
Allen Administrator Online   shocked
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I haven't had time to put Win10 on anything yet, but I can promise you Windows 10, underneath the hood, will be more like Windows 8 than Windows 7. If you haven't read the thread on Windows 8, it might be some good insight to some the issues you may come across.

The Joy of Windows 8 -
http://www.kixtart.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=206362#Post206362

One thing I am already annoyed with is Startdock. Their Start8 Menu replacement will not be upgraded for Windows 10 without a completely new purchase. Basically they are saying they are not restricting the use of Start8 on Windows 10, nor are they going to fix it if it doesn't work right. At this point, I have no idea what is going to happen to the machines if they upgrade with Start8 installed... meaning will MS disable it? will it work but look like crap?, or will it be installed and not work at all?

Fun times ahead.

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#210332 - 2015-06-08 09:32 AM Re: Anyone thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 [Re: Allen]
Robdutoit Offline
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Loc: London, England
Oh yes I read that read - Joy of windows 8. That was one of the reasons, but not the only reason why I never even considered upgrading to windows 8.

Actually windows 10 has been quite positvely reviewed. Windows 10 will be coming with a start menu and it intelligently changes the layout of the OS depending on whether you are using desktop or Tablet.

I have not reviewed it, but I am personally of the opinion that windows 7 is so good that I see no real need to upgrade. Maybe windows 10 has new features (The only one that sounds interesting to me is the virtual desktops), but for my clients I see no real value in upgrading.

Interestingly on spiceworks - http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99...ke-don-t-fix-it almost everyone says that they are upgrading, but none of them are giving any solid reasons other than they like it.

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#210333 - 2015-06-08 10:04 AM Re: Anyone thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 [Re: Robdutoit]
Arend_ Moderator Online   sleepy
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I've tried a few beta's and the public preview and as far as I've seen it, to me it is exactly Windows 8 with a Start menu.
They should have called it Windows 8.2.
Our company works with Windows 7 still (mainly because I say so), and our Remote Desktop servers Windows 2008 R2.
We only use 2 or 3 Windows 2012 R2 servers, but all of them are not without issue.
The main issue is that eventhough the backup account used for our backup service is has Local Admin privilidges on all servers that it backs up, the privilidges are not sufficient for the 2012 R2 servers. So for those servers I have to use the Local Administrator account to be able to invoke VSS properly.
Hopefully Windows 2015/2016 will fix this issue.
I'm not even going to bother you with all the other issues, most of them are described in the link Allen provided on "The Joy of Windows 8".

And as a WSUS admin, has anyone noticed that Windows 8/8.1/2012/2012R2 requires more and bigger updates then Windows 7/2008/2008R2?
Draw your own conclusions on that.

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#210334 - 2015-06-08 11:02 AM Re: Anyone thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 [Re: Arend_]
Robdutoit Offline
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Loc: London, England
Like you Arend, I don't have windows 2012 servers or any windows 8 devices, therefore I am not aware of WSUS update sizes. I agree with you. When other people were installing windows server 2012, I was still installing windows server 2008 as I felt that windows server 2008 was perfect. I see no real benefit to windows 2012 and the gui of windows 8 put me off windows server 2012 immediately.

Actually there are few improvements to windows 10 - namely that you can view multiple windows like windows 7, which you cannot do in windows 8.

I think I will hold off until 2020 and see if Microsoft brings out an operating system that is business orientated operating system similar to windows 7. This is the key problem with windows 8. Its aimed at consumers not business people. I don't know, maybe there will be a new microsoft competitor that understands that businesses want to use their software not spend half an hour trying to find the shutdown button!

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#210335 - 2015-06-08 01:11 PM Re: Anyone thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 [Re: Robdutoit]
Allen Administrator Online   shocked
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Unless something unforeseen happens, I will be upgrading all my clients to Windows 10 during the free upgrade year. I will likely upgrade all the Windows 8 PCs first, because as Arend said (and I have read elsewhere), Windows 10 is really 8.2.

With that said, I have always been hesitant to upgrade from one OS to another. It SEEMS like there is always that one weird thing that gets brought over from the old os. At this point, I'm not sure how I will handle the Windows 7 PCs. I have a funny feeling I am going to get very busy around the beginning of August.

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#210336 - 2015-06-08 01:19 PM Re: Anyone thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 [Re: Robdutoit]
Glenn Barnas Administrator Offline
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Wow! I'm surprised at the anti-2012 sentiment! Of the 30 Windows servers in my environment, 25 are Windows 2012r2, 4 are 2008 (only 2 by necessity of application compatability - the other two are RDS hosts in a farm to compare/contrast with the 2012 platforms in app testing), and one Server 2003 that exists solely for backward testing of apps we develop. Our 2012r2 environment has been rock-solid - it was the best decision we made - just took a little time to find all the new places that MS put things. That's the one sucky thing they keep doing - change for the sake of change.

I plan to start testing Win-10 in July.

Glenn
_________________________
Actually I am a Rocket Scientist! \:D

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#210337 - 2015-06-08 01:31 PM Re: Anyone thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 [Re: Glenn Barnas]
Robdutoit Offline
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Registered: 2012-03-27
Posts: 336
Loc: London, England
I would not say that I was anti 2012 Server. It was more as you said, spending time finding all the new places that MS put things. As I saw no benefit in my environment to server 2012, I just stuck with server 2008 as it was familiar and did everything that I wanted. If you use virtual servers etc, then yes 2012 would have made sense, but I don't use it in my environment as the networks are too small. I just saw server 2012 as windows 8 gui in a servr format. Considering how frustrating to find anything in windows 8, I just couldn't be bothered with server 2012.

I am not sure if I can take advantage of windows 10 free upgrade for clients as we use volume licensing which is not eligible I think (only if you have software assurance which we don't pay as its not worth it for our needs).

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#210340 - 2015-06-09 08:58 AM Re: Anyone thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 [Re: Robdutoit]
Arend_ Moderator Online   sleepy
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Glenn, my blatant anti-2012 rant is purely based upon facts.
Like I said I have 3 2012 R2 hosts, which cause some problems that we can't solve in a proper fashion, those problems are bugs.
Besides, we have a RDS farm, if we would change those to 2012 R2, our users would have quite some problems adjusting to it.
At any rate, as I've explained before I tested a few beta's and the public preview of Windows 10 and I will fully test the RTM version with all of our applications.
Based upon those results I'll decide wether or not Windows 10 is a viable option to me.

One thing I'd like to say on a personal note though.
As all of you know OS's over the last 10 years have grown to be very stable and flexible.
So what I do not understand, is why would Microsoft (and Apple for that matter) change the User Interface without allowing to customize the UI to make it look like it was before or to allow the same functionalities in the same places as we are used to.
I'll bet you if Windows 8 had a similar (optional) start menu as Windows 7 more users would have migrated, I'd have tested 2012 in my RDS farm even.
The start menu is what made Windows well Windows, without that even Gnome and KDE are more user friendly then Windows 8.

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#210343 - 2015-06-09 09:40 PM Re: Anyone thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 [Re: Arend_]
NTDOC Administrator Offline
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The underlying technology of Windows 10 as with all previous OS builds is not a 100% wipe and build new. It has technology going back to at least XP code though updated as needed to comply with current coding practices I'm sure. There is certainly a huge amount of Windows 8/8.1 code in 10 and that's a good thing overall. As you stated Arend as well as thousands of other techs on the Web for years now, the main gripe is the GUI dislike and the change of location for applets for seemingly no valuable benefit even to touch screen users. The undercover code/technology though is rarely blasted as it has some great improvements.


Another bit I posted on another forum where some user was concerned about a subscription cost to Windows 10


The basic core installation of Windows 10 will not be a subscription (they don't even know enough information about you to obtain payment) but what it does do is give them a stronger foothold in the core technology that will allow more seamless purchases for their store and Cloud based products and services going forward. No one knows for sure how long "normal" computers we're used to will continue to be in use but there is certainly heavy movement to reduce the need for them. I'm sure we'll be seeing more and more phone, tablets, and similar devices as well as applications that run from the Cloud on any device. Microsoft would appear to be working to build a base where they can leverage customers from any platform that can connect to the Internet. Providing a service or product that has a yearly subscription fee helps them to continue to thrive as a business as well. However the offering of Windows 10 for free would appear to be in their best interest in hope that many will subscribe to something in the future. As an example I myself was very upset and adamant about not using Adobe Cloud services but after a year of it being out there and reading more about it I changed my mind and I now use the Photographer package they have for $10 a month. I can basically install it on any of my computers and it licenses live through my sign-on so it's not like I can use it on 5 computers but I can have it installed on 5 computers and use it as needed (just not at the same time). In the long run say over a 5 year period the subscription model is actually cheaper than me purchasing a DVD standalone version every 18 months.



http://blogs.windows.com/

http://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/tag/windows-10/

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/priority-windows-10-news-briefing-summary/

BRAND NEW Windows 10 content from Microsoft Ignite
http://blogs.technet.com/b/sebastianklen...oft-ignite.aspx

Windows 10 available as a free upgrade on July 29
http://news.microsoft.com/2015/06/01/windows-10-available-as-a-free-upgrade-on-july-29/

 Quote:
*Windows Offer Details

Yes, free! This upgrade offer is for a full version of Windows 10, not a trial. 3GB download required; standard data rates apply. To take advantage of this free offer, you must upgrade to Windows 10 within one year of availability. Once you upgrade, you have Windows 10 for free on that device.

Our lawyers made us say this:

Windows 10 Upgrade Offer is valid for qualified Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 devices, including devices you already own. Some hardware/software requirements apply and feature availability may vary by device and market. The availability of Windows 10 upgrade for Windows Phone 8.1 devices may vary by OEM, mobile operator or carrier. Devices must be connected to the internet and have Windows Update enabled. Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 Update required. Some editions are excluded: Windows 7 Enterprise, Windows 8/8.1 Enterprise, and Windows RT/RT 8.1. Active Software Assurance customers in volume licensing have the benefit to upgrade to Windows 10 enterprise offerings outside of this offer. To check for compatibility and other important installation information, visit your device manufacturer’s website and the Windows 10 Specifications page. Additional requirements may apply over time for updates. Security and features are kept automatically up-to-date which is always enabled.

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#210344 - 2015-06-10 06:54 PM Re: Anyone thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 [Re: NTDOC]
Robdutoit Offline
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Registered: 2012-03-27
Posts: 336
Loc: London, England
I will install windows 10 on a test machine in August and see what I think.
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