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#145313 - 2005-08-11 06:37 AM reopend: Break ON discussion
Co Offline
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Since Les thinks he can end a discussion in the "Suggestion Forum" by closing the thread I reopen it here in the "General Discussions" Forum because I have one more thing to say....

http://www.kixtart.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=144205&an=0&page=0#144205

For some it is a issue for others it isn't. There are good reasons to keep it just like it is but after reading the thread most of those who respond don't like the default Break OFF in the first place because of the log off... Think we must take this discussion seriously
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#145314 - 2005-08-11 06:53 AM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
Chris S. Offline
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If you insist on continuing this discussion, I'll add my two cents. I have never cared much for "Break Off" as the default action. I understand and appreciate the fact that it is there, but anything that is going to log me off should be explicit intention of the author of the script.
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#145315 - 2005-08-11 07:38 AM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
Kdyer Offline
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Quote:

I understand and appreciate the fact that it is there, but anything that is going to log me off should be explicit intention of the author of the script.




I think the big thing is to be mindful of how your scripts are put togehter.

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#145316 - 2005-08-11 08:01 AM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
NTDOC Administrator Offline
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Sorry CO I just have trouble taking this discussion all that serious, I mean come on - It has existed in KiXtart since as far back as I can remember in 3.5x versions and was probably there before that. i.e. it has been in KiXtart and the default behavior for well over 5 years now so I don't see the ALL SO IMMEDIATE need/desire to modify it seemingly out of the blue.

To me it's sort of like:

"Crap, logged off again - that's it I'm going on a rampage and beat this into the ground until someone changes the default behavior"

Had everyone been soliciting heavily for the behavior to changed years ago I might have agreed, but "Wow - I've been in bed with this cock-roach now for 5+ years and now I want him to leave." just seems off base to me.

But hey, now that you opened it in General I get to bump my post count with this.

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#145317 - 2005-08-11 08:22 AM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
Co Offline
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Doc,

I was a bit pissed of the non-democratic way the thread was closed by Les. Besides, It never may be the reason to keep it unchanged because it is in Kix for many years....

But Like said before to me it isn't a big issue to typ two words...


Edited by Co (2005-08-11 08:31 AM)

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#145318 - 2005-08-11 06:34 PM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
NTDOC Administrator Offline
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I agree that it can be changed and that if Ruud agrees then good, change it. I just commented as to me it seemed like such passion over it and wondered why there has not been such passion about changing it in the past is all. Thus leads me to believe that it is more so a personal annoyance that someone was fed up with rather then fixing something that was really causing daily scripting issues.
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#145319 - 2005-08-11 08:16 PM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
Co Offline
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OK, you're right about that
Think I was more pissed about closing the thread than it is really an issue to me..


Edited by Co (2005-08-11 08:17 PM)
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#145320 - 2005-08-11 08:27 PM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
Stevie Offline
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Chris sums up my opinion as well. If there is a setting that will forcibly terminate a user's logon session for any reason, then it should be a setting that must be set explicitly. Not really a big deal to me either way though. Given a vote, I say change the default to BREAK ON, but if it doesn't happen, no biggie.
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#145321 - 2005-08-14 02:35 PM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
Sealeopard Offline
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If I need to sum up the discussion it's basically about typing the two words "BREAK ON" or "BREAK OFF" into either a set of login scripts, in which BREAK OFF is generally used, or admin scripts, where the BREAK ON would come in handy?

In that case, WHO CARES?

There are much more important changes needed in KiXtart. The BREAK ON/OFF comes down to personal preferences and lazyness, IMHO. As we have lived with the defaults for years, any changes to those defaults and expected behaviors should be considered carefully.

Why can a coder not make a habit to put that line into his code explicitly, whichever way he needs it? This should be a best practice, instead of relying on a default, specify what behavior you want exactly. Either way, the coder has to type that line for either set of scripts anyway.
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#145322 - 2005-08-16 10:59 PM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
jtokach Offline
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DOC, your innuendos are in bad taste and whether or not you intended to be critical of me, I can no longer NOT take it personally as per your request in the original post. I've been a productive member of this community for as long as most and deserve a bit more respect than this.

You are right in that my impulse to submit this suggestion was base on frustration; years of frustration as pointed out that this has been a default for as long as I can remember. I scanned the suggestions forum, found no mention of it, so I posted it. It's a suggestion for improvement and we were supposed to discuss it, not my coding habits and whether or not I'm lazy.

At least it was A discussion until Les closed it for no apparent reason. It a suggestion and should be discussed in the suggestions forum as the description of the suggestions forum reads "Discussions of new KiXtart features and/or suggestions for new KiXtart releases." If that's not an example of poor censorship, I don't what it is?

To reiterate, this was a valuable feature when the primary use of KiXtart was login scripts. Now that the tide has shifted to admin scripting, IMHO, it doesn't belong any longer, whether or not I continue to be a lazy person.

Respectfully,

Jim

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#145323 - 2005-08-16 11:41 PM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
Shawn Administrator Offline
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Jim, you refering to Ron (DOC) or Jens (sealeopard) comments ?
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#145324 - 2005-08-17 12:53 AM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
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I apologize Jim if you do take it personal as there is no intent on my part to belittle you or your coding skill. Quite the contrary, I think you've done a heck of a job on coding all that XML stuff.

As for the jest and comments in general I still stick by them as I really have trouble seeing this particular issue as all that important or critical either for Logon or Admin scripts. Does that mean it should not be changed or could not be changed - NO. It simply means that I'm expressing my opinion on the matter.

If you want it changed, then you did the right thing - you requested a change in the suggestions forum.

But Jim, you've been around here for about 4 years now yourself and this is the first you've suggested this change at least as I recall, so what else could one think besides it being a personal preference that finally annoyed you too much. Otherwise I would think you would have suggested it years ago is all.

As for the memberhip on the board I think you've contributed quite a bit and my opinions on this subject should have no bearing personal or otherwise on your contributions. Overall I think they've been great.

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#145325 - 2005-08-17 12:36 PM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
Co Offline
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Quote:

what else could one think besides it being a personal preference that finally annoyed you too much. Otherwise I would think you would have suggested it years ago is all




Doc, think Jim said it right. The reason why this wasn't suggested before is because in the past we used Kix only for loginscripts. Nowadays we use Kix more and more for adminscripting...

Quote:

To reiterate, this was a valuable feature when the primary use of KiXtart was login scripts. Now that the tide has shifted to admin scripting, IMHO, it doesn't belong any longer




Edited by Co (2005-08-17 12:37 PM)
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#145326 - 2005-08-17 02:45 PM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
Shawn Administrator Offline
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Thats a good point. Its akin to someone just learning VBS for example - they fire up notepad, type in a few simple statements they saw somewhere, get hungup in a loop and try to ctrl-c or close the console window - and get booted off their machine in the process - my first impulse would be to say WTF (and trust me, I have said that on many, many an occasion) ;0)
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#145327 - 2005-08-17 03:39 PM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
Mart Moderator Offline
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Quote:


....
my first impulse would be to say WTF (and trust me, I have said that on many, many an occasion) ;0)




Just WTF
Iíve taken swearing to a complete new level of non-existent combinations of unkind words when we really started using kix also as an adminscript like the last year and a half or so.

Yep, getting logged of each time you created some sort of fubar mistake in a script and exit it by the x or Crtl-c while some other stuff is still running for about four hours and is almost done but kix does not care and just stops it so you can start all over again is at least damn annoying but it's very useful for the login scripts (still created a lot) in kix.

I'm trying to get used to the break on option for admin scripts (hard to change old habits).
No changes to the default state of break needed imho.
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#145328 - 2005-08-17 04:20 PM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
maciep Offline
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To put in my humble 2 cents, i would love to see break on become the default. I never use break off and therefore it holds no real value to me whatsoever. And yes, i've been logged off many times in the past and i'm sure i will be in the future too.

And just because the suggestion may stem from laziness and isn't as important as others, doesn't mean it's not valid. if the majority of the community would like to see the change, then i think it should be changed (or at least considered). There have been many suggestions ignored over the years basically because of their complexity. I can't imagine changing the default behavior of BREAK being too much of a challenge for Ruud.

Not to mention it won't break any scripts, it will just change their behavior. And i assume most people use it for logon scripts only so how difficult would it be to add BREAK OFF to the top of the scripts before upgrading to the new version. Laziness goes both ways.

But in the end, i don't care that much. If Break Off remains the default, i won't lose any sleep at night. It'd just be nice to see it changed IMHO.

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#145329 - 2005-08-17 04:58 PM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
Shawn Administrator Offline
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Ja, we (the bbs I mean) have been advising folks put break on at the top of all their posted scripts, and most of us follow that guideline. But as far as lazyness being the cause of our grief - that just aint so. While admittedlly I have forgotten break on in some of my own scripts (and have been bitten more than once on that), its when I download other peoples scripts for testing and FORGET to add the break on myself, thats when I really get frustrated. I mean, these scripts (by definition) have issues - they were posted by individuals looking for help - these are the scripts to be most careful of. And that have bitten me in the past.

So it aint lazyness - more fogetfullness than anything. And if Ruud decides NOT to change the default - no big deal. We'll just keep on keeping on keeping-on and live the odd logoff now and then.

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#145330 - 2005-08-17 05:57 PM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
Shawn Administrator Offline
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lol, this thread HAS served an important function - it has allowed us to vent our frustration - anyone else care to vent, knock yourself out.
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#145331 - 2005-08-17 06:17 PM Re: reopend: Break ON discussion
jtokach Offline
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MODS, please close this thread and continue the debate in the original thread in the suggestions forum.
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