Page 1 of 3 123>
Topic Options
#144903 - 2005-08-05 06:14 PM Break On should be the deafult
jtokach Offline
Seasoned Scripter
*****

Registered: 2001-11-15
Posts: 513
Loc: PA, USA
Please make Break On the default mode.
_________________________
-Jim

...the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.

Top
#144904 - 2005-08-05 06:17 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
Les Offline
KiX Master
*****

Registered: 2001-06-11
Posts: 12734
Loc: fortfrances.on.ca
I disagree, should be off unless explicitly set on.
_________________________
Give a man a fish and he will be back for more. Slap him with a fish and he will go away forever.

Top
#144905 - 2005-08-05 06:23 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
jtokach Offline
Seasoned Scripter
*****

Registered: 2001-11-15
Posts: 513
Loc: PA, USA
If KiXtart's primary functionality was still processing login scripts, I would agree. The tide, IMHO, seems to have shifted towards administrative scripting where the admin or system runs the script making forced logoffs more a nuisance.
_________________________
-Jim

...the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.

Top
#144906 - 2005-08-05 06:55 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
Bryce Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2000-02-29
Posts: 3166
Loc: Houston TX
i so love those, quick and dirty, kix scripts... go to close the command window and log my self out... opps!
Top
#144907 - 2005-08-05 07:06 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
jtokach Offline
Seasoned Scripter
*****

Registered: 2001-11-15
Posts: 513
Loc: PA, USA
Hence the reason for this now! I've done this four times in the past two days. Between running other people's code, running dynamically generated code and trying to get ultraedit to work with kix32 /d, I've had it. (BTW, I found that if you keep Word open with even a modified blank file, during the forced shutdown Word will prompt to save the file. Click Cancel to maintain some diginity and only have to reopen about half of your programs.)
_________________________
-Jim

...the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.

Top
#144908 - 2005-08-05 07:10 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
Bryce Offline
KiX Supporter
*****

Registered: 2000-02-29
Posts: 3166
Loc: Houston TX
Quote:

Hence the reason for this now! I've done this four times in the past two days. Between running other people's code, running dynamically generated code and trying to get ultraedit to work with kix32 /d, I've had it. (BTW, I found that if you keep Word open with even a modified blank file, during the forced shutdown Word will prompt to save the file. Click Cancel to maintain some diginity and only have to reopen about half of your programs.)




notepad, with changes that need to be saved will do the same

Top
#144909 - 2005-08-05 08:35 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
Les Offline
KiX Master
*****

Registered: 2001-06-11
Posts: 12734
Loc: fortfrances.on.ca
All of my little test snippets of code have those two little words on the first line. I mean, how hard can it be to type break on?

Since I test with different version of KiX all the time, a change in default would still bite me if not tfor those two little words.

Break off is legacy, grandfathered in. I tried to have the default for NoVarsInStrings changed to get coders to switch over but that got shot down too.

You should switch to using WKiX. AFAIK break has been broken on it for quite some time.
_________________________
Give a man a fish and he will be back for more. Slap him with a fish and he will go away forever.

Top
#144910 - 2005-08-05 08:55 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
jtokach Offline
Seasoned Scripter
*****

Registered: 2001-11-15
Posts: 513
Loc: PA, USA
I'd argue that Break On is different from NoVars and Explicit in that it's an interpreter environmental directive rather than an interpreter processing directive. (or something like that) In other words, it has no impact on the way code is written or interpreted. Whether or not this is ON or OFF by default wouldn't affect any of the kix code in existance today whereas NoVars and Explict could have a significant impact.

Infact, compared to the setoption()'s, the Break directive is implemented by default, whereas the others need to be turned on to implement their respective action. If this command were SetOption(Break,[On|Off]), the command would be reversed where SetOption(Break,On) would cause a logoff on interuption. By that logic, it's default state would be SetOption(Break,Off) where interuptions would not cause a logoff.
_________________________
-Jim

...the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.

Top
#144911 - 2005-08-05 08:57 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
Shawn Administrator Offline
Administrator
*****

Registered: 1999-08-13
Posts: 8611
I think Break Off should never have been made the default too - nothing more annoying than logging yourself off - I hate that. Prolly too late to change that default setting though - dunno. Unless Ruud just bit the bullet on it.
Top
#144912 - 2005-08-05 09:44 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
NTDOC Administrator Offline
Administrator
*****

Registered: 2000-07-28
Posts: 11616
Loc: CA
Well if you used UltraEdit instead of Notepad you could use a hotkey to input Break On in your file right away before any testing. Can't find that option in ASE and KiXtarter but they might be there too.

Top
#144913 - 2005-08-05 11:08 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
jtokach Offline
Seasoned Scripter
*****

Registered: 2001-11-15
Posts: 513
Loc: PA, USA
No, you don't understand. When I configure the tools to run kix32 /d, nothing displays... Close the window, get logged out. If Break On is the first line and I hit enter,all is fine but nothing is displayed to the console. Seperate issue I need to take up with them.
_________________________
-Jim

...the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.

Top
#144914 - 2005-08-08 09:39 AM Re: Break On should be the deafult
Richard H. Administrator Offline
Administrator
*****

Registered: 2000-01-24
Posts: 4946
Loc: Leatherhead, Surrey, UK
Reversing the default in a well established scripting language with who knows how many scripts out there that are depending on the defaults to be set just so is a very bad idea I'm sure you'd agree.

How about a compromise, with the break state settable with a command line switch, or even better via a registry value under HKCU\Software\KiXtart?

For your development environment/user you set the initial break state to "off" via the reg value, when you release to production the initial state will be the default "on".

Top
#144915 - 2005-08-08 10:42 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
jtokach Offline
Seasoned Scripter
*****

Registered: 2001-11-15
Posts: 513
Loc: PA, USA
Microsoft does this kind of stuff all of the time. (Think SP2 for a recent example.) Now, I'm not saying 2 wrongs make a right, but I do think that future releases can change fundamental features of how the program operates. This gives the end user the ability to upgrade at his own pace\discretion. I would expect though that the major revision number goto v5.x. Change is inevitable. [Jim steps down from his soap box.]

That said, I like the registry hack idea and I think that most would welcome such an easy solution.
_________________________
-Jim

...the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.

Top
#144916 - 2005-08-09 11:18 AM Re: Break On should be the deafult
NTDOC Administrator Offline
Administrator
*****

Registered: 2000-07-28
Posts: 11616
Loc: CA
Quote:

No, you don't understand




Yes Jim I do understand, but was addressing a pun towards Shawn not your original request.

As to your request, sorry I don't agree with you. Yes I've been biten many times in the past by a few of the coders around here that love to turn it off, or hide the console or other behaviors that I don't care for, but I've learned to check and or code for it before ever trying their code.

Please do not take this personal as it is not meant to be, but as I see it changing the DEFAULT behavior of a program now used by 10's of thousands of users around the World in many even non English languages becuase 1 person is unable to adapt their coding behavior is a very poor reason for changing it.

That being said, I think perhaps Richard as usual has some good possible solutions that would accomodate both you and all the other users out there that don't have or experience the issue you describe.

As for Microsoft not sticking to standards, AMEN, but as you mention - 2 wrongs don't make a right. Microsoft though does go through a lot effort with many user groups when decisions are made that are going to affect all types of users (I know as I've participated in some of these groups in the past) They try to decide what is best for ALL users as they see it, which does not always make everyone happy - myself included.

Top
#144917 - 2005-08-09 12:43 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
Lonkero Administrator Offline
KiX Master Guru
*****

Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 22344
Loc: OK
Quote:


Please do not take this personal as it is not meant to be, but as I see it changing the DEFAULT behavior of a program now used by 10's of thousands of users around the World in many even non English languages becuase 1 person is unable to adapt their coding behavior is a very poor reason for changing it.





now now...
Ruud is unable to make the BREAK ON work in wkix32.exe and you say it's a users fault?

I have to be voting here with jim for the disablement of break by default.
I know it won't happen any time soon but I still pray for it.

BREAK can be OFF in logon environment but in normal scripts, it should default to ON.
_________________________
!

download KiXnet

Top
#144918 - 2005-08-09 03:02 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
Les Offline
KiX Master
*****

Registered: 2001-06-11
Posts: 12734
Loc: fortfrances.on.ca
The reg hack is a really REALLY bad idea. With that, anyone could hack themself the ability to subvert the completion of a script. BAD IDEA!
_________________________
Give a man a fish and he will be back for more. Slap him with a fish and he will go away forever.

Top
#144919 - 2005-08-09 04:25 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
Richard H. Administrator Offline
Administrator
*****

Registered: 2000-01-24
Posts: 4946
Loc: Leatherhead, Surrey, UK
Quote:

The reg hack is a really REALLY bad idea. With that, anyone could hack themself the ability to subvert the completion of a script. BAD IDEA!




You have a very good point, though it's not iredeemably bad. The hack sets the default - if the script has "BREAK OFF" explicitly set then it cannot be subverted.

Top
#144920 - 2005-08-09 06:19 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
jtokach Offline
Seasoned Scripter
*****

Registered: 2001-11-15
Posts: 513
Loc: PA, USA
Quote:


Please do not take this personal as it is not meant to be, but as I see it changing the DEFAULT behavior of a program now used by 10's of thousands of users around the World in many even non English languages becuase 1 person is unable to adapt their coding behavior is a very poor reason for changing it.




When the 10's of thousands of users come here to complain, forward there complaints to my PM. The way I see it, I wouldn't have poor coding behavior [implied] if this feature wasn't enabled by default.

Consider the changes from ASP to ASP.NET. These require complete rewrites of entire web applications costing millions upon millions of dollars. Companies will eventually rewrite their apps when they are ready to upgrade to ASP.NET Regarding KiX, existing 4.x code will continue to work fine. When they're ready to upgrade to 5.x, they'll need to change one line of code. Again, change is inevitable. We deal with it every day in the interest of obtaining/providing a better product.

And I still like the reg hack as an interim solution.
_________________________
-Jim

...the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.

Top
#144921 - 2005-08-09 06:48 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
Lonkero Administrator Offline
KiX Master Guru
*****

Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 22344
Loc: OK
I don't as it requires you to set in on each machine and when you are working on code that runs only once...
like beta stuff that mostly would benefit from break being on.

and, nobody needs to change their scripts at all.
changing the default of break does not break any scripts!
they will function just as before.
_________________________
!

download KiXnet

Top
#144922 - 2005-08-09 10:13 PM Re: Break On should be the deafult
NTDOC Administrator Offline
Administrator
*****

Registered: 2000-07-28
Posts: 11616
Loc: CA
It breaks it in the sense that those using KIX32.EXE as a logon script the user would now be able to kill kix32 without it logging off the user. To me that is breaking the script.
Top
Page 1 of 3 123>


Moderator:  Lonkero, ShaneEP, Jochen, Radimus, Glenn Barnas, Allen, Ruud van Velsen, Mart 
Hop to:
Shout Box

Who's Online
0 registered and 310 anonymous users online.
Newest Members
Kelly001, MichaelK72, Janneman, standardbruker, maikoenig2001
17773 Registered Users

Generated in 0.111 seconds in which 0.051 seconds were spent on a total of 14 queries. Zlib compression enabled.

Search the board with:
superb Board Search
or try with google:
Google
Web kixtart.org