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#136407 - 2005-03-25 08:39 PM RFC: XML UDF's
jtokach Offline
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Started a new topic due to size. Continued from here.
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#136408 - 2005-03-25 08:45 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
jtokach Offline
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Shawn, we've got a problem. The current setup of WriteXMLvalue, and probably every other UDF doesn't support this type of layout:
Code:
<korg>
<users>
<id>1</id>
<id>2</id>
<id>3</id>
<id>4</id>
<id>5</id>
</users>
</korg>



Back to the drawing board...


Edited by jtokach (2005-03-25 08:49 PM)
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#136409 - 2005-03-25 11:50 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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Quote:

and probably every other UDF doesn't




please be more specific.
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#136410 - 2005-03-27 12:21 AM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
jtokach Offline
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All of the XML UDF's we've put together.
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#136411 - 2005-03-28 08:07 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
Shawn Administrator Offline
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Jim,

I'm still working muchly with the "raw" XML functions. Lessons learned so far:

1) Reading Attributes of a node is much, much faster than reading child-elements (of the node) containing the same information... for example reading this:

Code:

<node1>
<data1>1</data1>
<data2>2</data2>
</node1>



is much slower then reading this:

Code:

<node1 data1="1" data2="2">
</node1>



Probably this has more to do with how one would "design" their schema, versus the UDF's themselves - just an observation.

-Shawn

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#136412 - 2005-03-28 08:18 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
jtokach Offline
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Indeed, that makes sense; less parsing, more direct. Also agreed, more for planning purposes than anything else. I'll see what I can up with regarding the issue above.
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#136413 - 2005-03-28 08:41 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
Shawn Administrator Offline
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I complained earlier in another thread - that it seemed a "waste" to have create an element as a child of the entire document, then later to have to add the element as a child of some other element ....

Lesson learned number two:

This isn't necessarily a bad thing - I learned that it is advantageous to be able to create an element, and to populate it with attributes and sub-elements - then to be able to later make the determination whether to actually add it as a child.

This ability really helped me in my GRID script - i was able to skip-over having to save CELL elements that only contained default settings (therefore don't need to be saved) - this speeds up the "loading" of the grid later on.

-Shawn

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#136414 - 2005-03-28 08:57 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
Shawn Administrator Offline
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Having a "messy" XML file isn't necessarily a "bad thing", if one has a half-decent XML editor/viewer to edit/view with ;0)

Lesson learned number #3 - messy XML aint the end of the world ... here's a sample of my GRID (spread-sheet) like schema so far...

<Grid RowCount="11" ColumnCount="3" AllowSorting="-1" AlternatingBackColor="-1" BackColor="16777215" ColumnHeaderStyle="2" CurrentColumnIndex="0" CurrentRowIndex="0" FontName="Verdana" FontSize="8" ForeColor="0" FullRowSelect="0" GridColor="8421504" GridLines="3" MultiSelect="0" ReadOnly="0" SingleClickEdit="0">
- <Columns>
<Column.0 Index="0" Alignment="-1" AllowSorting="-1" BackColor="-1" CellType="-1" ForeColor="-1" Format="" HeaderText="CategoryID" ImageIndex="-1" MinimumWidth="15" Name="CategoryID" ReadOnly="0" Resizable="-1" Width="100" ValueType="5" />
<Column.1 Index="1" Alignment="-1" AllowSorting="-1" BackColor="-1" CellType="-1" ForeColor="-1" Format="" HeaderText="CategoryName" ImageIndex="-1" MinimumWidth="15" Name="CategoryName" ReadOnly="0" Resizable="-1" Width="100" ValueType="8" />
<Column.2 Index="2" Alignment="-1" AllowSorting="-1" BackColor="-1" CellType="-1" ForeColor="-1" Format="" HeaderText="Description" ImageIndex="-1" MinimumWidth="15" Name="Description" ReadOnly="0" Resizable="-1" Width="100" ValueType="8" />
</Columns>
- <Cells>
<Cell.0.0 Value="1" RowIndex="0" ColumnIndex="0" />
<Cell.0.1 Value="Beverages" RowIndex="0" ColumnIndex="1" />
<Cell.0.2 Value="Soft drinks, coffees, teas, beers, and ales" RowIndex="0" ColumnIndex="2" />
<Cell.1.0 Value="2" RowIndex="1" ColumnIndex="0" />
<Cell.1.1 Value="Condiments" RowIndex="1" ColumnIndex="1" />
<Cell.1.2 Value="Sweet and savory sauces, relishes, spreads, and seasonings" RowIndex="1" ColumnIndex="2" />
<Cell.2.0 Value="3" RowIndex="2" ColumnIndex="0" />
<Cell.2.1 Value="Confections" RowIndex="2" ColumnIndex="1" />
<Cell.2.2 Value="Desserts, candies, and sweet breads" RowIndex="2" ColumnIndex="2" />
<Cell.3.0 Value="4" RowIndex="3" ColumnIndex="0" />
<Cell.3.1 Value="Dairy Products" RowIndex="3" ColumnIndex="1" />
<Cell.3.2 Value="Cheeses" RowIndex="3" ColumnIndex="2" />
<Cell.4.0 Value="5" RowIndex="4" ColumnIndex="0" />
<Cell.4.1 Value="Grains/Cereals" RowIndex="4" ColumnIndex="1" />
<Cell.4.2 Value="Breads, crackers, pasta, and cereal" RowIndex="4" ColumnIndex="2" />
<Cell.5.0 Value="6" RowIndex="5" ColumnIndex="0" />
<Cell.5.1 Value="Meat/Poultry" RowIndex="5" ColumnIndex="1" />
<Cell.5.2 Value="Prepared meats" RowIndex="5" ColumnIndex="2" />
<Cell.6.0 Value="7" RowIndex="6" ColumnIndex="0" />
<Cell.6.1 Value="Produce" RowIndex="6" ColumnIndex="1" />
<Cell.6.2 Value="Dried fruit and bean curd" RowIndex="6" ColumnIndex="2" />
<Cell.7.0 Value="8" RowIndex="7" ColumnIndex="0" />
<Cell.7.1 Value="Seafood" RowIndex="7" ColumnIndex="1" />
<Cell.7.2 Value="Seaweed and fish" RowIndex="7" ColumnIndex="2" />
<Cell.8.0 Value="13" RowIndex="8" ColumnIndex="0" />
<Cell.8.1 Value="ssss" RowIndex="8" ColumnIndex="1" />
<Cell.9.0 Value="14" RowIndex="9" ColumnIndex="0" />
<Cell.9.1 Value="xxxx" RowIndex="9" ColumnIndex="1" />
<Cell.10.0 Value="9" RowIndex="10" ColumnIndex="0" />
<Cell.10.1 Value="Shawn" RowIndex="10" ColumnIndex="1" />
</Cells>
</Grid>

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#136415 - 2005-03-29 10:17 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
Jose Offline
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Shawn just to add to this story I have seen on a simple google search that attributes are known to be fast but there is reason why.

Reference

Quote:


The primary key in an XML structure, the one used to identify specific objects, has a requirement that it be unique. Typically for XML structures, this uniqueness will come in the form of an ID of some sort. For the sample characters document, the ID is actually an attribute called "id" attached to the node. Because most parsers are able to parse attributes faster than elements and because an ID is less a describing property of the object and more a name for that object, you should keep IDs and ID references as attributes within your document structure for best efficiency.










But using attributes as child element has its problems too.

Quote:


Some of the problems with using attributes are:

* attributes cannot contain multiple values (child elements can)
* attributes are not easily expandable (for future changes)
* attributes cannot describe structures (child elements can)
* attributes are more difficult to manipulate by program code
* attribute values are not easy to test against a Document Type Definition (DTD) - which is used to define the legal elements of an XML document.

If you use attributes as containers for data, you end up with documents that are difficult to read and maintain. Try to use elements to describe data. Use attributes only to provide information that is not relevant to the data.



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#136416 - 2005-04-21 08:11 AM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
Jose Offline
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I have been doing some XML and noticed that in WriteXMLValue($source, $path, $value) any child included in the path cannot start with a number, otherwise you get error.
Example:
Code:

$= WriteXmlValue($xml, "korg/shawn/1_number", 119)

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#136417 - 2005-04-26 01:49 AM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
Jose Offline
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Shawn, Jim:
I find these new UDF´s very intresting and usefull but still there is something I cannot do with them.

It is ideal and for a better xml structure to store data on an XML file using the attribute as a table Id like this:
Code:
  
<messages>
<note id="p501">
<to>Tove</to>
<from>Jani</from>
<heading>Reminder</heading>
<body>Don't forget me this weekend!</body>
</note>
<note id="p502">
<to>Jani</to>
<from>Tove</from>
<heading>Re: Reminder</heading>
<body>I will not!</body>
</note>
</messages>


I found difficulties when you need to update an elemets that hangs from a a root value referenced with an attribute, FE (case above). I want to modify the body when id="p502".

If we can solve this I think there is gonna be little left to manipulate any XML with Kix.

Thanks boys.


BTW:
Looks like 'without UBBcode/HTML' combo is not working.....mnn......yes it is, after I posted this modification...weird.
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#136418 - 2005-04-26 02:16 AM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
Shawn Administrator Offline
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Jose/Jim.

I have been playing much with the XMLDOM object model and wrote a little script that helped me "explore" the model. Its actually quite instructive to poke around XMLDOM and see (visually) just how "strange" it is.

If you want to check it out (the work-in-progress), I posted it here:

XML Workshop

You need the latest kixforms dev build to run this, here:

Kixforms Development Build

Would love to get your feedback/observations on this.

-Shawn

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#136419 - 2005-04-26 07:19 AM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
Jose Offline
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Well Shawn you have really done some difference here. Very nice man!! .
I will give a try tomorrow at and post some feedback.

About what I have asked above about the element uptade according to the attr (similar to id of table), now that Shawn is an XMLDOM expert he had fixed a code that does the task wich can perfectly fit to a new UDF.
Here is the code:
Code:
  
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<messages>
<note id="p501">
<to>Jani</to>
<from>Jani</from>
<heading>Reminder</heading>
<body>Dont forget me this weekend!</body>
</note>
<note id="p502">
<to>Jani</to>
<from>Tove</from>
<heading>How are you</heading>
<body>Gimme a call Tovy!!</body>
</note>
<note id="p503">
<to>Shawn</to>
<from>Joser</from>
<heading>Shawn you.....</heading>
<body>.....are a wonderfull person</body>
</note>
</messages>


In wich case if I want to update <to> value of id="p501" attr would be something like this. It is rought script wet.
Code:
  
UpdateFromAttribute('id', 'p501', 'body', 'Dont forget me this weekend!...please')


Code:
  
Function UpdateFromAttribute($Attr, $AttrValue, $Path, $PathValue)
For Each $note In $xml.documentelement.childnodes
If $note.getattribute($Attr) = $AttrValue
$heading = $note.selectsinglenode($Path)
$heading.text = $PathValue
EndIf
Next
EndFunction



Edited by Jose (2005-04-26 07:24 AM)
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#136420 - 2005-04-26 06:15 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
jtokach Offline
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Jose,

There are several problems with the current UDF's which I didn't realize until afterwards; my second post in this thread being the main problem. I really haven't had time to come back to this and probably wont for a few weeks. Of course, if Shawn has developed a better model, we can choose to emulate it in Kix so that they are independant of the kixforms.dll. It certainly wont be anywhere near as fast though but at least they'll jive.
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#136421 - 2005-04-26 06:39 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
Shawn Administrator Offline
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I didn't devise a new model, just wrote a kixscript that allows one to "explore" the existing XMLDOM model. It presents a TreeView on the left, with all the nodes as they are presented by xmldom. On the right, one can see all the xmldom properties. There is another Tab for xml view.

-Shawn

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#136422 - 2005-04-26 06:49 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
jtokach Offline
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Ah, well then, these still need a major overhaul to cope with post #2 and jose's attribute thingys. We jumped into this without enough forethought. The specifications need to be changed to handle the above or a different model needs adoption. I think we have enough info and made enough mistakes to develop a solid set of UDF's here on out. Perhaps we can also consider performance this time through, or leave it for version 2.
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#136423 - 2005-04-26 07:01 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
Jose Offline
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But Jim those "several problems" arent that bad. I have been using these udf's normally, besides there where none to use before so that is good. I say to go ahead shoot the UDF's and make corrections on the fly.
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#136424 - 2005-04-26 07:06 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
jtokach Offline
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For me, the post #2 problem is a show stopper. It needs to be fixed/incorporated which means a major overhaul to the UDF's specifications.
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#136425 - 2005-04-26 07:24 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
Jose Offline
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Pardon my ignorance Jim, can you explain me the problem #2 with a sample for me to understand? I cannot find your reference.
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#136426 - 2005-04-26 07:32 PM Re: RFC: XML UDF's
Shawn Administrator Offline
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Me too - Can we have a summary of issues ?
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