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#117672 - 2004-04-09 10:50 PM Back to the future...
Stevie Offline
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Registered: 2002-01-09
Posts: 199
With the prevalence of KiXforms and IE GUIs, do we really need the Console API functions Box, Color, etc.? Those functions effective break kix's stdout. IMHO, choosing between stdout and the console api stuff, I'll take stdout every time.

If I want to create a rich GUI experience via kix, I'm using kixforms, not prettifying a console box. Maybe I'm just out of the loop here but how many people actually use color, box, at, big, etc. to display real information to the user?

Having said that, what are the chances that Ruud will deprecate the console commands and go back to using stdout for console display?
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#117673 - 2004-04-09 10:59 PM Re: Back to the future...
Les Offline
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Posts: 12734
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I really have a dislike for the ugly old DOS style console but there are a lot of people that still use it.

Maybe Ruud could implement a SetOption() that would simplify STDOUT without adding much overhead.
Re: Reference Material

Still think that the Console has no place in WKiX32.
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#117674 - 2004-04-10 04:32 AM Re: Back to the future...
NTDOC Administrator Offline
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Posts: 11577
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Up until a few months ago I used it daily during logon for my users. Now that I have no 9x clients I use WKIX32.EXE and no batch file.


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#117675 - 2004-04-13 04:57 PM Re: Back to the future...
ShaneEP Moderator Offline
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Registered: 2002-11-29
Posts: 2082
Loc: Tulsa, OK
I still use the COLOR and AT stuff during patch updates at logon. Why try to keep the kixforms.dll registered and updated on all the corporate PCs when the simple built in kix commands are all I need.
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#117676 - 2004-04-13 08:25 PM Re: Back to the future...
Stevie Offline
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An option to redirect to stdout isn't a bad idea. Shane's situation is probably quite common though. You just want to run something quick and display it to the user. In that case, Shane, would not having color and AT anymore really impact how you display info to the user.

If you're just wanting to display something quick you can always just print a line and let them know what's happening. Most times I've seen color and AT used, though, it's some quite elaborate contraption to display a lot of data to the user through some sort of organized list.

***************************
* username: blah *
* domain: blah... *
***************************

etc...

Those were really the types of cases I was referring to. But for the quick one-liner, would not having color and AT be a burden?
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#117677 - 2004-04-13 08:34 PM Re: Back to the future...
ShaneEP Moderator Offline
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Registered: 2002-11-29
Posts: 2082
Loc: Tulsa, OK
No burden on me...Just not as pretty for the users...

Besides....Hopefully we will be going to SMS soon so scripting the patches will no longer be necessary.

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#117678 - 2004-04-14 10:19 AM Re: Back to the future...
Richard H. Administrator Offline
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Posts: 4945
Loc: Leatherhead, Surrey, UK
Quote:

But for the quick one-liner, would not having color and AT be a burden?




Probably not, but is there any really good reason to remove these features? The console will still need to be present to display simple text, so there is not likely to be much benefit from stripping out things like AT and COLOR.

Having IO redirection (both IN and OUT) would be a great feature, but there is no need to remove existing functionality to do it. A command line switch and/or SetOption() to switch output to "raw" mode should do the trick and keep KiXtart backwards compatible.

Another (better?) option would be to allow OPEN(), READ(), WRITE() to operate on standard in, standard out and standard error streams. In fact, the more I think about it the more I like this solution. These standard file descriptors could either be open when the script starts, or be opened by a special file name:
Code:
; Open input, output and error pipes
$fdSTDIN=FreeFileHandle()
$=Open($fdSTDIN,"STDIN:",2) ; Standard input in read mode.
$fdSTDOUT=FreeFileHandle()
$=Open($fdSTDOUT,"STDOUT:",4) ; Standard output in write mode.
$fdSTDERR=FreeFileHandle()
If Open($fdSTDERR,"STDERR:",4) ; Standard error in write mode.
; No standard error stream - Windows9x maybe
$fdSTDERR=$fdSTDOUT
EndIf



RedirectOuput() could also be enhanced to accept a stream name in a similar way.

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#117679 - 2004-04-14 03:03 PM Re: Back to the future...
Kdyer Offline
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Registered: 2001-01-03
Posts: 6241
Loc: Tigard, OR
It is interesting. I brought this up the other day with my Manager that I could hide the execution of KiXtart. He did not like that as "he could see the progress of the script." I did tell him if I introduce an error, KiXtart will still tell us that. This has also been a question I have asked ScriptLogic Tech Support as well. They say that they have to keep their Batch/Splash due to 9x clients. My response to that was we got rid of our 9x clients at least two years ago. I asked how about turning this on or off for a given install. They just did not seem to hot on that idea.

Kent
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#117680 - 2004-04-14 03:51 PM Re: Back to the future...
Stevie Offline
Starting to like KiXtart
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Registered: 2002-01-09
Posts: 199
I have nothing against the console stuff, except for the fact that it prevents me from getting the raw text. If there was a SetOption available to allow either, then of course I'd be in favor of it.
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#117681 - 2004-04-17 01:24 AM Re: Back to the future...
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 22343
Loc: OK
ja.
but hey, the kix-console should be dead totally in wkix32!
wkix32 should have no console of it's own.

what kix should have is support for stdout and stdin!
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#117682 - 2004-06-07 06:48 PM Re: Back to the future...
PRandal Offline
Fresh Scripter

Registered: 2002-07-17
Posts: 27
What's wrong with

Code:
$=SetOption("ASCII","ON")
$=SetOption("WrapAtEOL","ON")


to direct screen output to stdout?

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#117683 - 2004-06-07 09:12 PM Re: Back to the future...
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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Posts: 22343
Loc: OK
because it does not work.
ascii on sets ascii on.
windows ain't ascii system, and afaik, nor is dos.

next, wrap at end of line. what?
all it does is insert a line feed when console's horisontal line-buffer is reached.

neither of these have anything to do with STDOUT.
if they have similar behaviour in kix32, it's a bug.

and they do not have anything to do with wkix32 stdout as it's console afaik is (and afaik, only should be) emulation.
as in add-on feature to have a console where kix spills it's defaulted output.
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#117684 - 2004-06-08 01:22 AM Re: Back to the future...
PRandal Offline
Fresh Scripter

Registered: 2002-07-17
Posts: 27
Oh, arrogance is bliss!

it.kix:
Code:
$=SetOption("ASCII","ON")
$=SetOption("WrapAtEOL","ON")
"Hellooooo"



And then, invoke via
Code:
kix32 it.kix > it.txt



It'll be useful to somebody. It was to me, in the real world.

Sighing deeply.

Phil

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#117685 - 2004-06-08 01:25 AM Re: Back to the future...
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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Posts: 22343
Loc: OK
yup, it's bliss.
remember, that behavior is a bug and maybe be gone later on.
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#117686 - 2004-06-08 11:06 AM Re: Back to the future...
Richard H. Administrator Offline
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Registered: 2000-01-24
Posts: 4945
Loc: Leatherhead, Surrey, UK
Easy there P, you'll be hoist by your own petard.

Setting "ASCII" on and so-on does *not* provide a STDOUT stream. It allows KiXtart output to be _redirected_ in a limited number of scenarios.

As an example of the limitation, you cannot spawn a kixtart process and attach IO pipes to it in any sensible manner. This means that you cannot for instance use KiXtart as a CGI without coding up wrapper batch files.

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#117687 - 2004-06-08 11:31 AM Re: Back to the future...
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 22343
Loc: OK
...and you can't do anything with given settings in wkix32.
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