(Korg Regular)

2006-09-21 11:10 AM

OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Yes!

In the Private-round a suggestion came up regarding something a bit more... easy for 'us' that don't got the head nor skills to compete with the rest of you. I wish to elevate this, because I really envy the rest of you able to compete and raise your levels of golfing/scripting thro this

Is this something that any mod would care to acctually try to make a reality of, or should anyone of 'us' just try to make a inofficial competition?

Comment, critique, ideas - bring it on! (wish-to-be)Participants, supporters and such - show your faces

Administrator

(KiX Supporter)

2006-09-21 01:12 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Right,

one supporter ... if there are at least three I'll ask the question in Mods only if there is anyone willing to 'moderate' this

(Korg Regular)

2006-09-21 01:27 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Sounds fair enough.

(MM club member)

2006-09-21 01:42 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

this sounds like a grand idea, i am sure there are many that would enjoy.

Administrator

(KiX Supporter)

2006-09-21 01:48 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

I won't count active 18 hole golfers as supporters!!

(Korg Regular)

2006-09-21 01:51 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Joch; as a regular - the knowledge is prolly a bit higher then someone that should enjoy 'minigolf', but, one suggestion is to have a extended timeperiod of golfing, perhaps only a public run or something? That way moderating it, building and managing it hopefully would prove easier.

(MM club member)

2006-09-21 02:15 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

I would definatly try to play, as most of the ones that Jen's comes up with are so far beyond what I can do as scripter (usually the math is where I get lost). And it might make a better scripter out of all of us.

Administrator

(KiX Supporter)

2006-09-21 02:24 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

2

Administrator

(KiX Master Guru)

2006-09-21 02:28 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

I just can't think of any subject for such golf round...

(Korg Regular)

2006-09-21 02:33 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Jooel, well, there's plenty of us to help out with that

Just need to see some more perticipants (spelling?), and it doesn't have to really be a golf-round in that sence either.

Administrator

(KiX Supporter)

2006-09-21 02:52 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Well, I can think of at least 2 subjects to solve by now ... We'll see.
Any more takers ?

Administrator

(KiX Master Guru)

2006-09-21 02:56 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

but jochen, are the subject so easy that you can't think them being a real golf challenge?

Administrator

(KiX Supporter)

2006-09-21 03:06 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Well, you remember the fun we had with the sample code in the announcer of last tournament ?

(Korg Regular)

2006-09-21 03:07 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Jooel, it's supposed to be minigolf, easier and for a broader audience

Administrator

(KiX Master Guru)

2006-09-21 04:42 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

björn, but easier would mean something like "create a replace udf."
Code:


function replace($,$w,$wc)
$replace = join(split($,$w),$c)
endfunction

who the heck can golf that?

(Korg Regular)

2006-09-21 04:56 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Jooel, for some of us even that can be a bit tricky.. but, all I really was to get the talk going to check if anyone else would be interested in doing something like this, and if anyone would be interested in managing it. Perhaps setting up several 'courses' like in golf/minigolf and join 'em together would be a solution - several easy solutions can prove a problem if joined together

(MM club member)

2006-09-21 05:09 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Or maybe it can be set up as what would be considered a task that one might run into in the course of everyday work, and the goal is to provide a robust solution. Not exactly a "golf" challenge, but more of learning experience, and then the "guru's" can tell us what we did wrong, or what we did right.

Administrator

(KiX Master Guru)

2006-09-21 05:22 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

the problem is that no matter what the coding task, what simpler it is, that harder it is to golf.
like said, you can't golf my joinsplitter.
so, if we start a minigolf, someone posts the first solution and that's that.

it just doesn't make sense to me.

(Korg Regular)

2006-09-21 06:08 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Well then golfing is the wrong name - and Gargoyle just hit his head on what I was reaching for.

Administrator

(KiX Master Guru)

2006-09-21 06:28 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

k, then... what you want is a korg member position where the helping responses to others' questions are ranked and at some times some scoretable is presented...
or do you want some organising involved to make it look like competition?

Administrator

(KiX Master Guru)

2006-09-21 06:28 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

btw, I think expertsexchange works totally like that... ever tried?

(MM club member)

2006-09-21 06:36 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

It should be set up as contest to see the best solution to a problem.

For example there recently was the one submitted by Tony72 http://www.kixtart.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=167996&an=0&page=0#167996, that would be a great way for those of us that are not guru's to come up with differing solutions and then the guru's judge as to the best offered solution and provide critique as to the methods used, and what works and what does not.

Administrator

(KiX Supporter)

2006-09-21 06:51 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

I can't see the 'judge' in Minigolf ... the criteria must be a unique selling point like the score in Golf.

Ranting though will be allowed and welcomed in the public phase

Administrator

(KiX Master)

2006-09-21 08:11 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

I think I know what you guys mean and I've suggested in the past as well.

Basically I see it as a learning class.

Can not guarantee as work is a bit hectic lately but will look into putting something together soon.

Administrator

(KiX Supporter)

2006-09-21 08:30 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Oi Ron, hold back the horses for a bit ... I count only two (Non-progolfing) supporters yet

Administrator

(KiX Master)

2006-09-21 08:44 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

LOL - Not a problem Jochen.

As said - I don't think it is so much a real Golf challenge as a learning experience.

If only 2 want to play so be it - not a big production like the one Jens does.
However hundreds I'm sure will pass by and hopefully learn bits and pieces.

Not like the board is over flowing with too many questions lately anyways.

Administrator

(KiX Master Guru)

2006-09-21 09:21 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

here's a task...
create a script that will scan the board user tables and from all those who have over 1000 posts, return the username of the one, who's closest to nice value.
nice value is a even thousand or a value where all numbers are same.

Administrator

(KiX Master)

2006-09-21 09:43 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

ROFL

Jooel you joking basta. I'll post one a bit easier and perhaps what I think is more on topic of what they're wanting.

Administrator

(KiX Master Guru)

2006-09-21 09:48 PM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

hmm... well, at least it would have been easy...
lengthy, but easy.

Administrator

(KiX Master)

2006-09-22 12:53 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Bjorn and Gargoyle

So is this the type of thing you're looking for, or something else ?

http://www.kixtart.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=168455

(MM club member)

2006-09-22 01:02 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Along those lines, albiet I believe this will be very easy, but then again.... there could be hidden dangers. I will post my solution tomorrow.

Administrator

(KiX Master)

2006-09-22 01:07 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

No, no hidden dangers and it is easy for someone with experience with KiXtart.

However, someone that is quite new to KiXtart I'm sure would have a difficult time figuring this out.

I'm sure you and Bjorn are quite up to the challenge and I'll increase the difficulty as it progresses if there is interest.

As with most scripting tasks there often are more ways then one to achieve the objective and it's nice to see other methods chosen by other users.

(MM club member)

2006-09-22 01:57 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Another facet would be to have the scripter explain within the code what it is doing.

This provides not only good documentation skills, but helps anyone reading it, to know what is going on and maybe learn from it as well.

(MM club member)

2006-09-22 02:26 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Doc,
I think this is a great KiXtart starter challenge, the knowledge gained from the ability to read/write to the registry is important and very useful to the novice/master scripter.

Gargoyle,
I agree blocked documentation of the process as it proceeds thru the script is key to the ability of the scripter to follow along as well as making it easier to go back to the script at a later date and decipher what you did.

Administrator

(KiX Master)

2006-09-22 04:12 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

This was posted by "therob" in the Mini-Golf thread so I deleted it and I'm posting his comments here.

*************************************************

ok this is more microgolf ;-). Nah, dont get me wrong, thanks for taking my suggestion serious. But what i had in mind was something that average scripters can play and starters can learn from.
So, the challenge could be to write a script about a realworld task, (or maybe more motivating: to write a script to find a solution to a riddle).

The focus wouldnt be as much on the script length, but on the best way to implement that task (short, proper written) so one could learn about the different possible ways to implement a task.

edit: ops, this should be in the other thread. sorry.

Administrator

(KiX Master)

2006-09-22 04:16 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

d.r.,

Well what you're asking is a bit more difficult to manage and know what "level" to have it at.

Often the hardest part is getting the code going to do the task in the first place.

Though the first round in the Mini-Golf is way too basic for yourself, if there is interest then over time the task will become more challenging.

Jens has done many challenges and if you look in the past or wait around I'm sure he'll come up with one soon that is more in line with your current skill level I'm sure.

There are always going to be scripters at varying levels of understanding, thus targeting to a vary narrow group is difficult to do.

(KiX Master)

2006-09-22 06:47 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

I'm trying to not make the Golf challenges to complicated. for the current one, there's a analysis of the challenge posted online that contains the complete framework script for the solution. One would just need to convert that framework to KiXtart and would have had a workign solution. Thus, not much scripting required.

However, one way to start off some Mini-Golfing would be to grab an existing UDF and Golf it down. I won't be able to do the Mini-Golfs due to time constraints on my side.

(Korg Regular)

2006-09-22 07:44 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Doc, Jochen, Sealeopard - Yes - perhaps the 'golfing' should be removed - and yes doc, your 'task' you linked to is really in the terms my mindset was asking for right now.
Therob - Sorry to have stolen your idea and that it somewhat came out easier then what your plan was - but I know there's a lot of us out here that need to bump our common knowledge about these things - and like doc said - (or, think he said

) the task can become more.. challenging.

(Korg Regular)

2006-09-22 07:55 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Your Golf isn't really perhaps 'complicated' in the way to find a solution - but, for unexperienced users, kixing it can prove very uneasy. Like the last one, I knew how to move the marbles, but no idea how to make it scriptable at all, no matter the language

(Starting to like KiXtart)

2006-09-23 03:08 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Quote:

Therob - Sorry to have stolen your idea and that it somewhat came out easier then what your plan was - but I know there's a lot of us out here that need to bump our common knowledge about these things - and like doc said - (or, think he said ) the task can become more.. challenging.

Ideas are free.

I'm perfectly fine if there are "microgolf" challenges for starters (also).
I just came up with the idea because i saw that kixgolfing is a fun way to train your scripting capabilities, but the original kixgolf was just for them who dream about UDFs at night. (no offense, its just over my head

)

And i thought there might be a lot of people out there -like me- who have some scripting experince, who are able to come up with a solution for most of the every day tasks, but know that most of the time there are better, simpler, faster -whatever- ways of doing that.
So i would be nice if it would go this direction. I do realize that its not that easy to come up with a minigolf game like that, but hey, that would be the challenge for the mods.

Nah, i try to think about something a little bit more concrete myself and suggest it then...

(MM club member)

2006-09-23 05:20 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I think that Jens does a great job of coming up with the challenges that he does. To me scripting is more than just accomplishing a real world task, it is a challenge of the mind.
I am the kind of person that takes a challenge like a dog would take a bone, I don’t like giving it up. I don’t think I am a great scripter, but I do think I get a little better every time I try.
There might be solutions on the web somewhere but I try to expand the way I think by forcing myself to come up with an original way of accomplishing the task.
I don’t think it matters what the challenges are called, but I do think that they help us grow in our abilities to script. KiXGolf does not really promote the best way to script,
I think it is more about the challenge and the least number keystrokes. I think that Doc has the right idea for scripting beginners, teaching a more proper way of scripting.
I think there is a varied level of experience for all the users of this forum, and having a mid level challenge would be good as well.

(MM club member)

2006-09-23 08:01 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

The reason that I find myself unable to compete in the official Golf challenges is not so much my extremely high scores, but the fact that I have problems with creating the formula needed to accomplish the given task.

(Starting to like KiXtart)

2006-09-23 11:05 AM

Re: OT (off)/ OT (on) : Golfing / Minigolf

Quote:

KiXGolf does not really promote the best way to script

Imho, in a way it does. In order to play, you need to know what other solutions for a problem are possible in kix. You also learn new ways in the public round. Sure, in the game you only use it to narrow your keystrokes, but it also trains your ability to use this knowledge the next time you have a realworld task, doesn't it?